No. Simply because D800 sounds cool.

D700s would be nice to have, but I think Nikon will probably just release a full frame version of the D7000 instead.

I agree I don't think there'll be a D700s/x, but the question is, is that what you want?

My point is, I think most people would rather have either a D700s or D700x (depending on what type of photographer they are) over what the D800 will probably be. I posted this thread to see how right/wrong I am. :)

There will be no s or x version of the D700, I haven't heard anything new from what I was told a few months ago, D400 3rd Quarter 2011, D4 2nd Quarter 2012.

I think it's too late for a D700s I believe they will come up with the D400/D4 first and then make some D800 based on the D4.

VinnieJ sorry but the answer unfortunately is "no" we can't have it all. This is due to the fact that Nikon will not put everything we want into one body because it would hurt sales. Why put the low light ISO performance of the D3s and resolution of the D3X and then movie ability of the D7K all in over camera and hurt sales of those other 3 cameras? Its much better for the corporation to release a D700 refresh and then another new body 3 months later with other options we need. It keeps customers buying bodies while at the same time allowing older models to keep selling as well.

This is an unfortunate fact of being a customer of Nikon or most other brands. You can't have the perfect body for everything. However, the way around this is to decide what your style of shooting is. Sports, high res, video etc. For me it is resolution so a big full frame sensor with higher MP and reasonable ISO is what I'd like.

I expect to see a 24 MP D800 using basically the same sensor as the D3X.

The D700 will be upgraded to a D700s using basically the same sensor as the D3s. The new D700s will continue to be sold alongside the D800.

There will be a D4 with 18 MP and low noise performance that is comparable with the D3s. The D4X will have 34 MP and low noise performance that is comparable with the D3X.

The crystal ball is now offline. ;-)

I'd go for the D3s sensor.

D7000 gives us good DR, so I want a camera that let me do things other's can't. That's the low light capability of the D3s's sensor.

Saludos!

Can't we have it all? Things just need to keep evolving. Throw in some built in wifi and an Android OS also. ;)

I see lot of people expressing their needs towards video capabilities and more MP
Nikon sure won't dissapoint them

however Nikon likes raising the bar a little higher, so they might add a few additional features
like better autofocus and metering
bump the iso specs to d3s level ( maybe not as good but atleast to choose in camera like the d7000 )
maybe inbuilt gps and wifi

I am sure they will get it upto the mark of d3s and borrow technology from aliens for the d4.

I'm still waiting for a better low ISO cam with the D3s' ISO capabilities

I think a D700X/S would be a good idea. Gives more creative/testing time for the D800.

So it seems to me that the D700 followup (call it the D800) will be 18MP or so, with ISO/noise performance about the level of the D3 and D700, and video similar to or slightly better than the D7000. (I don't have any inside info, I just read NR and elsewhere.)

But I wonder if this is the right thing for Nikon to do. It seems to me there are three camps waiting for the D700 replacement: those who want better ISO/noise performance, those who want more pixels, and those who want video.

ISO people (I'm in this camp) see the great low-light performance of the D3s, and want the same in a smaller, cheaper, less "extreme" camera. They'd be disappointed if the replacement was at the same noise level of the D700 or only slightly better. They want a D700s.

Will resolution people be happy with 18MP? That's only about 20% bigger than 12MP in either direction. I'm sure they've been looking hungrily at the 24MP of the D3x, and would be disappointed with anything that's much less. They want a D700x.

Video people won't be /really/ happy until they can have 1080p at all framerates up to 60Hz, or 4:2:2 4K video if they're really extreme. I think they'll be waiting at least a year for Nikon to make something they're happy with.

So am I right, or am I way off? Who here wants a D700s, who wants a D700x, and who'd prefer the hypothetical/probable(?) D800 above?

nyneak said:
never nikon reles a product in janaury - may.

Not true. Nikon has had many product announcements between the months of Jan and May. The D2HS, D40X, D60, and D5000 were all announced between the months of January and May. They've also announced numerous COOLPIXES and lenses too.

TaoTeJared said:
@NikoDoby - If I'm not mistaken the Pop Photo comment was a general $1,500 and not referring to Nikon. I remember that article as well but I couldn't find it. Allot of people were speculating Pentax to come out with a FF in that range.

Yes I know they didn't mention who was bringing out an "affordable" full frame camera. I was just mentioning it in hopes that it would be Nikon and not canon or Sony.

I make excel table with all nikon product relase. 1 In my conclusion, never nikon reles a product in janaury - may. 2 In december, 99% to relese FX budy. 59% - d4. 40% - d700s, d7000 reveald ALL the godies components, even the sensor (4,7um tehnology - half size of d3s,3d,d700) With these tehnology cane make D4x 48Mp , D4s 18Mp iso 400,000.

I'm not so sure if I'm sold on the whole shooting flat workflow that I've always been tought. Shane Hurlbrut has been making a lot of noise in the HDSLR community lately saying otherwise.

Mike Gunter said:
I don't think that DSLRs with video have been out for 5 years, but I might miss the intent of your remark.

Hey, Mike! I originally bought it for use with a DVX100. When I got my D90, I tried it out, and it was perfect! Since commercial links aren't allowed on NR, I would appreciate a PM with the address of that product!

Hi Studio,

I don't think that DSLRs with video have been out for 5 years, but I might miss the intent of your remark. ;-)

There are several 'homemade' rigs and some that others are selling. Here's a photo that is selling for under $1K.

I don't have it, I have never used it, never held it in my hands, and can't attest to how well it works.

D7K is H.264, but I'm not to sure that FCP edit's it natively, without using ProRes. I think FCP transcodes just about everything.

My best to all,

Mike

studio460 said:
Since Nikon announced the D7000, I don't really care about the D3s' video workflow anymore. I once did a search for "editing D3s video" and "Final Cut," and found this 37-step procedure. It looked ridiculously complicated.

H.264 for the win.

@NikoDoby - If I'm not mistaken the Pop Photo comment was a general $1,500 and not referring to Nikon. I remember that article as well but I couldn't find it. Allot of people were speculating Pentax to come out with a FF in that range.

D4 specs sound good. Still probably $4,500 more than I'm willing to spend. May give a good idea where the D400/D800 is heading. If the same ISOs can be used but just cleaner, I'm good with that. Shooting at 102k even 64k is ridiculously good, but usable is the true question.

@shivaswrath - LOL - I've been dumping DX lenses for two years now! 12-24mm and 35 1.8 is all that is left!

jonnyapple said:
What brand is your cheap rig, studio? I'd like to find one.

I wish I knew. I just searched for "shoulder mount," or something like that, about five years ago and found it online on a crummy little, one-page website. It wasn't made by a traditional manufacturer--it was just a guy in Hollywood that handmade them. I'll post a picture of it later.

Mike Gunter said:
I'm not sure about how much shutter control one will have with the camera. _Generally_, motion picture film cameras only have one shutter speed, 1/48th of a second.

Hey, there, Mike! Another video shooter here--great! Thanks for the affirmations--yeah, a 1/48th shutter speed is all I care about at this point. As you know, with the D90, you have no idea what shutter speed the camera will "choose."

Mike Gunter said:
Final Cut Pro's way of handling the CODEC is, as Studio460 indicates is rather inelegant. It did, shortly ago anyway, transcode to an Apple CODEC and use that.

I went to an NPS seminar a couple months ago, and Sports Illustrated photographer, BIll Frakes, showed off his D3s-acquired video footage. It all looked great. I asked him if he transcoded to ProRes, and to my surprise, he said, "No, we just edit it directly." Didn't really understand what he meant, but I think he did say that they edited in FCP. He did however mention that he would freely share his D3s video workflow to anyone that e-mailed him. Since Nikon announced the D7000, I don't really care about the D3s' video workflow anymore. I once did a search for "editing D3s video" and "Final Cut," and found this 37-step procedure. It looked ridiculously complicated.

Now that we are about a year off from this thread, do you guys think these specs are still achievable for Nikon or are they a bit to overheated. I do think they may introduce another autofocus which was rumored a year ago. It may have a huge impact with the video as well as stills. However, please know that this is just my opinion. I just really wanted to see some chatter about the D4 to keep my hopes up for another 10 months!

Hi all,

"Mike, you're going to scare him away =D" Hope not. :-)

Final Cut Pro's way of handling the CODEC is, as Studio460 indicates is rather inelegant. It did, shortly ago anyway, transcode to an Apple CODEC and use that. I use Vegas for it's simplicity, but for our video work we have been using DVC Pro HD, a professional CODEC that, when we started, only a limited number of NLEs could edit easily. Adobe Premiere Pro was one of the better solutions for that CODEC. It doesn't hurt that I teach Adobe products. ;-)

What target the production is matters, of course. Our _Outdoors_ Channel experience (I DP a few episodes of a hunting show) over the last few years is 720p60, and PBS series (which ended a 6-year run for which I was the Associate Producer) was 1080i60, neither of which fits any of the current D7K formats, and I have no clue whether Nikon will offer a firmware update. I'm hopeful, but I'm not betting the farm.

For HD broadcast, a 1080i60,1080i50, 1080P30, 1080P25, 720p60 and 72050 would have been more useful rates. Of course, no one asked me. I'm guessing that fewer than .01% will convert their video to film, something that 1080P24 would really make sense in using.

All CMOS cameras have rolling shutters, even the Red cameras, it's how well they manage data from the sensor to the video processor. Canon does this better than Nikon right now. Even Panasonic does it better.

But shooting movies isn't shooting stills. The jello effect can be nearly eliminated if the camera or subject don't jerk around; the use of a fluid-head tripod might solve the problem altogether.

Studio460 is also right on target that the APS sensor is larger than most of the film 35mm formats, so that you can get film-y looking stuff from a APS-C camera - one _doesn't have to go to full frame_.

I'm not sure about how much shutter control one will have with the camera. _Generally_, motion picture film cameras only have one shutter speed, 1/48th of a second. The mix of aperture and shutter speed is accomplished by the _angle_ of the shutter which is a rotating disc. The disc is angled so many degrees to allow the light to hit the film for proper exposure. The time is fixed, _generally_. Undercranking_ creates fast motion, overcranking creates slowmotion, and special shutters can create special effects like the hyper-reality of _Saving Private Ryan_.

Of course, in electronic video, even in the D90 and D7K, there are no shutters. There are electronic switches that go on and off collecting data, but down to 1/24th (popular convention will call it 1/30th) of a second only - the upper limit I'd be clueless to, or you'd have under cranking, something that would be nice, but not promised nor mentioned, and if it acts like a _film camera_ 1/125 and over would cause over cranking, but again, I doubt that, too. It could, of course, put all the information in multiple frames, as to fake long time, or short time, but that wouldn't be so good either would it? I would want my camera to shoot honestly.

I do like the AVCHD CODEC. It's robust in it's color space and most NLEs can handle it. I think it's a step up from the MJEG. One of the issues I had, and it's the dummy in me, I didn't use the picture controls in the camera to neutralize the footage prior to taking the video. Since the CODEC is MJEG, picture controls influences movie output, you want less contrast in the video so you can manipulate in post. Oops.

While I sound like I'm bashing the D90, and I sort of am, it can make nice-ish video. The trouble is how limiting it is. I think Nikon can do a lot better. I'm hoping it will.

I ordered my D7K from Amazon last Friday, so I'm committed to it.

My best,

Mike

What brand is your cheap rig, studio? I'd like to find one.

You're right about the flicker reduction, but we'll see how well it works. Most fluorescent lighting these days doesn't run at the mains frequency anyway.

If you need some comfort about the d7000, I missed the d300 announcement back in 2007 but preordered as soon as I heard (about 1.5 months after the announcement). I still got it delivered the day after thanksgiving—as soon as anyone else I read about who had two-day shipping and actually before my uncle that ordered it the day of the announcement.

pher said:
You're going to need some kind of light weight shoulder support rig if you want decent video.

I just wanted to mention that I bought a really cheap shoulder rig for like $90 online somewhere from some guy in Hollywood a while back, and it works GREAT! I put my D90 on it (using a Stroboframe quick-release plate), and I couldn't believe how steady my shots were with this "cheap" rig. Don't be fooled into thinking that you "need" to be buying one of those $1,800 Zacuto rigs to shoot "good" video. Sure, eventually, you may want a more capable rig to be able to mount follow-focus rails and whatnot, but there still are far less-expensive alternatives to Zacuto for that as well (e.g. CA Vision, Red Rock Micro, etc.).