Yeah why wouldn't canon just wait and make these announcements in a few weeks at Photokina? They must be confident that these "concepts" (120mp sensor, worlds largest CMOS, and now this 4K HD camera) are nothing compared to what's coming? Either from them (5Dmk3 4K, 1DsMk4) or better yet from Nikon (4K camera with full-time AF?). Remember Nikon's said they'd have something that would "change the market".

They must be preparing for a blow from Nikon...

Not sure why canon is suddenly opening up their "R&D" these pass few weeks but here's another interesting "concept". It's an 8mp camera that records HD 4K video and has a fixed f1.8-3.8 24-480mm zoom lens!!! It also has a pretty sweet 4K LCD monitor.

http://philipbloom.net/2010/09/01/canon-4k-concept-camera-and-first-images-from-canon-expo-on-ny/

So apparently canon has aspirations to crush RED cameras. It'll be very interesting to see how (or if) Nikon plans to go this route too.

Might it be just as likely that Nikon will do the same thing with its (thus far theoretical) EVIL line as it's done with its SLRs, and for that matter that Panasonic and Olympus are already doing with m4/3? That is to say, have a series of lines, one targeted at consumers (think EVIL 5000), a prosumer (EVIL 90/95), and a pro (EVIL 3)?

I agree that mechanically the design needs to be slightly different( after all a mouse cant look like an elephant). But the optical formula can be exactly the same. Even so mechanically it wont need to be very different. It will probably look exactly the same only smaller.

Has Nikon ever produced misleading patents before? For example, did the patents for the 35/1.8, 50./1.4 AFS and 24/1.4 lenses describe their actual sizes?

If Nikon has no history of misleading patents, then the 17mm image circle is probably accurate.

Also, lenses can't simply be scaled up and down in size. A larger lens can have greater mechanical tolerances with less of an impact on the image quality.

Regarding the lens patents in japan and US being identical for DX and the new 17mm diagonal. I think they are both valid. Because there is no mirror area with a relatively different length between sensor sizes (eg the DX vs FX vs 17mm) there is no reason that you cant use the SAME design for the mirror-less cameras with sensors of different sizes. of course the glass focal lengths will be related to the sensor size but the mathematical lens formulas can be identical.

If the predicted zoom lenses are for real, it is highly improbable that the EVIL will have a DX sensor: There will be no zoom with a useable wideangle range, the lowest 35mm equivalent being 36mm! That´s not going to sell. For me, the "little" sensor will still be much larger than a Canon G11 sensor, and the main sales argument (to me, at least) would be a camera as compact as possible. The "little sensor" 35mm equivalent ranges seem much more credible: 22-105, 26-270, 45/1.4 and 35/2.8, possibly a pancake.

EDIT: I jumped too soon to the keyboard - as did NR themselves! Of course a given focal length gets WIDER on a larger sensor. Silly me, sorry.

NikoDoby said:
PB PM it's Alpha not alfa. There are already rebadged Nikon COOLPIX cameras in Nikon's line up so I don't see why there can't be a "rebadged" Nikon "NEX" camera. With the latest news from sonyrumors that there is a new 14mp video capable and high ISO 16mp Sony sensors coming out soon it seems even more likely we will see a Nikon "NEX" camera. Or at least a "concept" based on the NEX but with an Fmount.

Wow, not sure why I was spelling it alfa... lol. Whatever, it's Sony junk anyway. :-p

There are many point and shoots from several brands using Sony sensors, that doesn't make them re-badged Sony cameras. With that logic, every Nikon DX camera short of the D2H is a re-badged Sony Alpha.

NikoDoby said:
PB PM it's Alpha not alfa. There are already rebadged Nikon COOLPIX cameras in Nikon's line up so I don't see why there can't be a "rebadged" Nikon "NEX" camera. With the latest news from sonyrumors that there is a new 14mp video capable and high ISO 16mp Sony sensors coming out soon it seems even more likely we will see a Nikon "NEX" camera. Or at least a "concept" based on the NEX but with an Fmount.

Heartyfisher the company Carl Zeiss often just "leases" the name "Carl Zeiss" and they don't actually design or build all of the lenses that have the name. Same with Leica lenses on Panasonic cameras.

I am talking about the original camera lenses when Carl Zeiss the company actually did design lenses.

Keep in mind, a true telephoto lens uses a technique to shorten its physical length. No reason, in principal, this can't be applied to a normal or wide lens. Sort of the opposite of a retrofocus lens.

PB PM it's Alpha not alfa. There are already rebadged Nikon COOLPIX cameras in Nikon's line up so I don't see why there can't be a "rebadged" Nikon "NEX" camera. With the latest news from sonyrumors that there is a new 14mp video capable and high ISO 16mp Sony sensors coming out soon it seems even more likely we will see a Nikon "NEX" camera. Or at least a "concept" based on the NEX but with an Fmount.

Heartyfisher the company Carl Zeiss often just "leases" the name "Carl Zeiss" and they don't actually design or build all of the lenses that have the name. Same with Leica lenses on Panasonic cameras.

Actually I think lenses can be smaller than they currently are. I may be wrong but much of the size of the lenses is due to an early patent by Carl Zeiss (they have prosecuted their rights) Thats why you see so many phones and small camera devices that have Carl Zeiss lenses. Might not apply to Zooms though.

Niko, I don't see how the lenses could be much smaller if the image circle is the same. The NEX zoom lenses are only slightly smaller than standard Afla lenses, if that is any indication of what we could see. I also doubt Nikon will use rebaged NEX cameras, considering their entry level cameras aren't rebaged Alfas!

Nikon NEX anyone? Well it's only suppose to be a "concept camera" anyway right? So if we all hate it then Nikon can go back and "supersize it" to an FX EVIL camera ;^)

NikoDoby said:
A DX EVIL makes more sense to me. However couldn't they still develop smaller lenses for it?

Why won't DX die! :^P heartyfisher!

From what I can estimate of the size I think Nikon is aiming for a compact design. We'll see.

A DX EVIL makes more sense to me. However couldn't they still develop smaller lenses for it? Perhaps we will see a rebadged Sony NEX camera with a Nikon F(E)mount? As much as I didn't like the 110mm sensor idea, I did kind of like the idea of having small Nikon rangefinder lenses again. Kind of...

Why won't DX die! :^P heartyfisher!

Yes, coming up online tonight - I waited to see if any new Nikon patents will show up today.

jonnyapple said:

TH implied that the 17mm image circle on the lens patents Nikon has filed may just be a smokescreen. That could be true because the dimensions can just be scaled arbitrarily. Won't I feel like a donkey with my NEX-5 when Nikon releases a mirrorless FX camera? ;-)

So Johnny, you and TH may be right after all and I was wrong. I found a patent for a DX EVIL lens that was a scaled up version of a previous 17mm format lens. So Nikon may make a DX EVIL after all. I expect admin will post it soon.

Niko, to be honest I doubt Nikon would care if one camera it sells steals sales from another if it is in the $2k price range. Maybe the mirror-less full frame would be the affordable full frame camera, which would replace the D300s.

Anyway, I know you are right, it is highly unlikely, at least for now.

That would also be incredible and would find it's way into my bag.

I don't think that'll happen before Nikon makes a D90/300 like "affordable" full frame DSLR first. An EVIL FF would steal sales from such a camera. Not to mention all of the "amateurs" who would want that camera instead of a DSLR.

A real game changer would be a mirror-less full frame for less than the D700.

The thing about a full frame EVIL is that it would be expensive! And such a camera wouldn't be geared towards the "amateur" COOLPIX crowd which I think this "concept camera" will be. If it were to be a "pro" camera then it would probably be priced between the D3 and D3X. Although it would still be cheaper than the Leica M9. But if it also did HD video, wow that would be a "game changer" wouldn't it.

I would like nothing more than a mirrorless FF Nikon that does video like the Sony nex. Let's hope...