Capture NX2 for almost everything, I say almost because LR4 has lens corrections and CS5 has photo stitching and HDR.

>>So when I select 'Raw' on my D7000, then select 'Set Picture Control-Neutral-Sharpening' and increase the sharpening to say '9' then increase ( or decrease ) the saturation, brightness and contrast, I end up with quit a different photo when viewed next to a photo taken without these adjustments.
# Am I seeing a Raw photo or what? Which photo is Raw? <<

Depends on where you are viewing...
- On the LCD of thye camera, you are looking at a "small Jpeg" witch is included in your RAW file.
- When looking in CaptureNX you are looking at a representation of the RAW file with all setting applied. Thos settings can be changed because the original full rRAW file is still there, but there is a section in the file that contains the settings which are applied by Capture NX2. Here you find the main advantage of Capture NX2 for Nikon camera's : the settings get carried over , and get shown in Capture NX2..
- When importing in an other RAW development program ( Adobe Photoshop, DXO, Lightroom etc.) you will get a presentation of the basic RAW file with no settings applied, then you can change / apply settings witch will be saved with the RAW file, in a separate library. Thos settings you can change again because the RAW itself is not changed.
- When converting to DNG by Adobe DNG converter, all initial settings arte lost, and you need to make nesw settings through an Adobe program witch understands DNG. Your RAW file changes ( slightly) by the conversion process.
- All raw can get "Developed" towards a TIFF or JPEG ( or some other exotic formats). WHen those files are "adjusted"then they are realy changed. This process is needed to be able to print, or publish ( On the internet..) your pictures. every change from here on to the JPEGS or TIFF files causes some loss of IQ mostly.. But the RAW are not changed..

earthsea said:
# Am I seeing a Raw photo or what? Which photo is Raw?

You cannot "see" a photo as a Raw file, is just that, a file

It has to converted into a image, by software such a Lightroom or NX2

Lightroom can be set, to adjusted its output, to match the adjustment you originally set in your camera , but the RAW or NEF file is not change. The big advantage with RAW is, if you do not like your original "adjustments", you can change them in post production . If you shoot jpegs, you cannot go back to the origianl RAW data

I think NX2 works the same way

I

This sure is a tricky subject to get ones head around!
So when I select 'Raw' on my D7000, then select 'Set Picture Control-Neutral-Sharpening' and increase the sharpening to say '9' then increase ( or decrease ) the saturation, brightness and contrast, I end up with quit a different photo when viewed next to a photo taken without these adjustments.
# Am I seeing a Raw photo or what? Which photo is Raw?
My understanding of a Raw photo is that it is just that, a -Raw- photo, no adjustments.
After making adjustments in Picture Control in the camera then Adjustments in VeiwNX and Develop and Adjust in NX2,
# Is the photo always Raw through all these processes?
Cheers.

Capture NX2 maintains the original file and all subsequent edit steps. At any time you can go back to the original NEF if it is only processes in Capture NX2 or Nikon View NX2.

When you make edits in Capture, there is a user setting that determines when edit steps are applied. Normally they are applied with each step so you can see what you are doing.

Within the original NEF file is a basic JPEG that is used to render the image shown in the LCD and display thumbnails. If you use Capture, that basic JPEG is replaced with a larger JPEG - thus the reason why the file size changes after an edit. Some programs - like Photo Mechanic - can extract a copy of this JPEG making for very quick JPEG creation.

Capture does not use sidecars or separate files or instructions that need to be attached to the file - there is a single file. If you have versions of edits in Capture, Capture can carry all of those edit steps as separate versions in the single edit file.

All of these programs have proprietary editing software, so it makes sense that other programs can't pick up those edits and interpret them. The Adobe programs do not pick up the Nikon supplied interpretation of the RAW data but rather apply their own version. Sunny daylight has different values in Photoshop and Capture. That can be an advantage for a particular product, or a disadvantage with compatibility.

Yes, I watch a explanation video from Adobe on Lightroom, its catalog and xmp.
So basically, all software are doing uncompatibles changes, except if you stick with Adobe (lighroom+bridge+photoshop and xmp)...
And basically, CNX2 is the slowest, because it rewrites the NEF for every change! Even if it doesn't touch raw data inside. What a pity...

rdunnell said:
... If you "edit" a raw file in most of the packages, the changes will not show up in other packages because the original file is not touched. So they are all "compatible" in the sense that they do not touch the file and ruin it for other programs, but if you want to work on the image in one program and then another you will have to export to another format and work on the exported file (TIFF etc).

Going a bit off-topic here, but here's a little tip for lightroom users: This is an option under the Catalog settings (metadata tabs) - "Automatically write changes into XMP".

What this option does is that any time you modify a RAW picture in lightroom instead of just saving the changes to the catalog database it will actually create a separate *.xmp file. That file can then be used with Photoshop (and other compatible software, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform for a list).

I love that setting, because it allows me to forget about catalogs. I don't really "catalog" my pics, i just use lightroom to sort out the keepers and tweak/post process them a bit, the normal pics then get converted to med-resolution jpg's and only the keepers are kept as RAW (saves a lot of harddisk space). So once i am done processing a shoot i remove the pics from the catalog. The thing i like about that is that i have no need to backup/manage the catalog database (just need to backup the picture files, a simple file-copy is all that is needed).

And if i need to go edit a keeper again then i can just quickly drag the file into a catalog again and they will show exactly as i left them the last time (with all changes read from the xmp file).

I believe that the NEF format is designed to always keep the original RAW data intact. Any modifications done to a NEF file, if saved as as NEF, reside as a series of processing instructions for the original pixel data. The RAW file format actually has a the Bayer pattern of Red, Green and Blue pixels. The RAW processor first converts this to a set of colored pixels. If there are is other information in the NEF file such as WB, contrast changes, whatever, these reside in the NEF file as processing instructions to apply to the RGB pixel data extracted from the RAW data. As spraynpray says, whenever you save the image as other than an NEF, you might lose the ability to revert back to the original. This is certainly the case with jpegs, TIFFs can incorporate some processing data as can photoshop files. In order.

...and exporting the file (whatever format - jpg, tiff, etc) incorporates - permanently - those changes into it. So, if it goes on from program to program being changed, the original raw file remains untouched and can be re-edited from the beginning (import from camera) or the end (exported to other editors) as you wish.

Your question "Does a .NEF file changed by another program etc" is not valid because you export it in a different format from Lightroom, not a NEF.

I don't know what Capture NX does but the other programs (Lightroom, Aperture etc) do not change the image data inside the file. They keep a catalog with the changes that you made, and then apply those at display or export time. So, the image inside the raw file is always the same as it originally was. In the case of Lightroom, and I assume others, you can export a sidecar file which contains all the changes you made to store alongside the original file if you don't want to keep it in the catalog, or want to send it to someone else as a raw file.

If you "edit" a raw file in most of the packages, the changes will not show up in other packages because the original file is not touched. So they are all "compatible" in the sense that they do not touch the file and ruin it for other programs, but if you want to work on the image in one program and then another you will have to export to another format and work on the exported file (TIFF etc).

Yes, but the question is "Does a NEF" file changed by a software can be changed by another.

Is NEF editing compatible between software or every software write its own proprietary editing data in the NEF ? Which are compatible ?

a RAW file is not an image. it is a bunch of information which can readily be turned into an image.

RAW files can always be reverted to "as shot".

Shoot RAW and live
Hate RAW and die
A wa he woooy he woooy

If I understood well how CaptureNX2 is working, it changes NEF settings inside the file, not the raw data itself. So everything can be changed/reverted later.

How does other software like Lightroom4, Aperture3, CaptureOne6 perform? The same way ?
Does it means a NEF modified by CNX2 (changing Picture Control for example), can be seen and changed again by another software? And then changes can be seen in CNX2 ?
Or does they use different approach? (incompatible ways)

This is an ever lasting argument, I guess; a very interesting one though, with no right answer; mainly because it is too much down to the preference of each photographer and the capabilities offered by the different software products, all of them varying continuously. And this is probably why you are now reading this thread.

In my case, I am not too worried about super-productive workflow. I am more concerned about getting the most out of an image, keeping things as simple as possible but without loosing control of what is happening.

I tried tens of different photo editing/cataloguing tools. So far I have narrowed my spectrum down to: a) ViewNX (for quickly browse/organise), b) Capture NX2 (main editing tool, including Color Efex 3 complete), and c) Photoshop (for those VERY rare complex editing jobs). Period.

With sadness, I keep leaving Adobe's Lightroom out of the list. From its very first release I always wanted to adopt it; I tried it and I keep re-trying its new releases in hope that some day it will handle Nikon RAW images as Capture NX2 does. Well...it hasn't so far, and it seems it never will.

I love LR's sleek, intuitive, expansible environment, which translates in a very flexible workflow with very high throughput. NX2 in turn is way sloooooooow, clumsy, unstable, rather limited and is looking rather outdated to say the least.

But:
- NX2 uniquely treats and processes Nikon RAW files mimicking Nikon in-camera's processors: what you see when shooting is a pin-sharp replica of what you get with NX2. There is no other software in the market that can even dare claiming this.
- NX2 saves all the edits non-destructively within the same file; no hassle for portability or administration. LR generates a massive external database which is an unnecessary level of risk and restrictive compexity.
- NX2's U-points are simply great! So simple and yet so powerful.

I hope this could be of help to some of you.
Cheers.

I worked with a bunch of tools, and because I do not like to do post-processing on the photos, I do not spend a lot with them.. but:

1. To preview photos, I use IrFanView free tool. it is fast, supports a large number of formats
2. Most of the PP I do using Photoshop CS3, it does the job and I guess I do not need any more than that.. Although it does not support Nikon D7000 raw conversion
3. I tried Photoshop CS5,nice tool, but need $$$ for getting it, currently I'm not in a position to spend more money on photography... or I will be forced to sleep with my dog in his doghouse..
4. I used/use Nikon Capture 4.4 on my D70s, but that tool will not support my D7000, therefore I'm limited to use Nikon ViewNX2 which I don't like due to its limited capabilities.
5. I tried Lightroom 3.0 till the trail version died.. nice.. but I need to get used to. (The learning curve is not short with all Adobe products)
6. Under Linux, I use RawTherapee and Gimp.. nice tools that evolved a lot since they were first published.. They are free tools and I would take the opportunity to say "thanks" to the developers of these tools. They may not compete with professional commercial tools, but they are not far behind them!
7. For panorama making, I use Hugin free tool, very similar to PT-Gui

Disclaimer: I do not have any relationship with any of the tools mentioned above, I just use them. I have no profit from them.

Hope it helps...

Have a nice day to all..

In the last month Lightroom 3 has fallen form $299.00 (regular price) to $179, then to $150. Something's up. LR4 soon? Maybe Adobe will also have a "big" anouncement later this month as well.

Roka13 said:
Wow this was really helpful but are there any other free ones(like light room)?

You won't get any free ones with the quality that Lightroom provides but you can buy Lightroom for $99 if you're a student or get a student to buy it for you at their college book store.

Anyone have a Nik Software Silver EFEX Pro 2 serial I could use? I'm too broke to buy the trial version for $200 and I tried various cracks already that didn't work. Thanks I know its asking a lot actually...

tcole1983 said:
What is Corel Photopaint x-5? x3 maybe?

And not everyone has $640 to spend on CS5...lightroom cost enough for me.

Nope it's X5 (I still have x3 installed though)

Wow this was really helpful but are there any other free ones(like light room)?

tcole1983 said:
And not everyone has $640 to spend on CS5...lightroom cost enough for me.

Make sure you register Lightroom 3 and tick the "please send me ..... " box
From time to time, Adobe send out, time limited, half price offers for CS5 ( needles to say, mine arrive after I had paid the full price)

Many Adobe products can be trialed free for 30 days

kyoshinikon said:
Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2 is archaic. It is like using photoshop 5 (not cs5)

I use Photoshop Cs5, Corel Photopaint x-5, and Lightroom for different jobs... Seldom use NX2 or Gimp these days...

What is Corel Photopaint x-5? x3 maybe?

And not everyone has $640 to spend on CS5...lightroom cost enough for me.

I'm a real cheapskate and use The Gimp for all my image manipulation (JPEG).

Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2 is archaic. It is like using photoshop 5 (not cs5)

I use Photoshop Cs5, Corel Photopaint x-5, and Lightroom for different jobs... Seldom use NX2 or Gimp these days...

tcole1983 said:
I had been using View and Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2, but I wasn't very happy with the Corel software. I just got lightroom and although I don't know all the tricks yet it is a ton better.

Same here, I was using NX2, Nikon Picture Project, Topaz and PS Elements. I'm still learning everything in Lightroom but Lightroom is so much better than what I was using.