@msmoto: That would really make me maa-aa-aa-aa-aad.

@TTJ: I'm betting I know exactly what happened here. The band founder (Tom Scholz) went through several great big loads of crap a number of years ago. He signed an unfavourable contract, and thus brought some misery upon himself, but his legal fight with Epic Records went well beyond epic. He was tied up in court for multiple years. Bandmates sued him too. Furthermore, people were breaking into his recording studio and stealing his partially finished work. Other people were stealing his trash. He patented a lot of technology for recording and stage performance, and people were ripping off his prototypes.

At some point he got as litigious as he could for self protection. The band's performance rider is massive. At some point in developing the laundry list of things to try to protect his intellectual property and keep him out of court going forward, a bunch of people were sitting around a table and somebody looked at his camera phone and said "Long camera lenses, now that could be a problem, right?" and everyone else just mindlessly nodded his head in agreement. Clause written.

Not logical in and of itself, but I'm 95% sure that's how it went down. I only met Tom a couple times but if I ever see him again I'll ask: he is an engineer by education, and a deep thinker. He's not concerned about how he looks--every wrinkle a legal battle scar he's neither proud nor ashamed of.

TTJ, I am laughing right now...thinking of the wind and such. Years ago we had to shoot a fellow holding a live goat, on a rock at the seashore. Somehow we thought we could do this by building a fiberglass rock, placing it into the water and doing the shoot. Well, between the waves, small but very powerful, the live goat, and the soft sand I was standing in.... this is why I am laughing now.... The shot came off after about ten rolls of Ektachrome (Hasselblad 500c), but the problems we did not understand became so funny at the end. Net time we went to a different location. Oh, transporting a goat a 150 miles.... not easy either.

Bland said:
Tao...they didn't want any long lens used and my 70-200 was not approved. Not sure why but they didn't want anyone taking pictures of them. The stage light was blue which is hard to shoot and when they kicked in the white light it was blinding. It was weird, realy weird.

msmote....I agree with you on both the concert and the meet and greet parking lot shoot.

Because of the difficulty they made the shooting I had to give the Casino pictures of the concert that were not the quality I like. So now I got pics out with my name attached to that do not look that good.

The parking lot ordeal I did luck out of because like you say the headaches would of grown as they asked more and more from me.

It was a lesson learned last night. :)

That is weird for sure - maybe they didn't want people to see their age? Who knows. Sucks about sending off work you know could have been better.

Across the way from me there was some running thing (I think) in an open parking lot like you described and I could see a photographer taking photos. Steady 20mph wind, chilly, and awful lighting. I happened to look over when the photographers assistant went chasing after two soft boxes that landed in a huge puddle. Some things are better to walk away from for sure (:

Thanks for the info, shawnino......that would explain the reasoning. Reminds me of another Tom that was destroyed for decades by the under belly and etc., Tom Petty.

Ah.

After the crap that Tom went through with CBS and subsequent issues with ex-band members, I get why management is so anal. (Likely on Tom's orders.) Anybody who wants to read the tale of a mistreated artist, google Tom Scholz' story. He's a musician by trade, not a photographer, but he was put through a lot.

(Full disclosure: I am a huge Tom fan and use a lot of the equipment he developed in my own music.)

shawnino said:
Gotta ask: who are these clowns?

The clowns aren't the band but their management. Sorry for not referring to that better. The band is Boston and they put on an incredible show last night.

Gotta ask: who are these clowns?

Tao...they didn't want any long lens used and my 70-200 was not approved. Not sure why but they didn't want anyone taking pictures of them. The stage light was blue which is hard to shoot and when they kicked in the white light it was blinding. It was weird, realy weird.

msmote....I agree with you on both the concert and the meet and greet parking lot shoot.

Because of the difficulty they made the shooting I had to give the Casino pictures of the concert that were not the quality I like. So now I got pics out with my name attached to that do not look that good.

The parking lot ordeal I did luck out of because like you say the headaches would of grown as they asked more and more from me.

It was a lesson learned last night. :)

One of the great gifts of age is the ability to simply walk away from certain situations if it is not good for me. Sometimes promoters want to control the artist's work. Certainly publication rights might go with the work if paid for, but how one does the job is beyond my ability to tolerate.

These are the same people who come into the Dr's office and tell the doctor how to treat them. Mmmm.... maybe they can do their own surgery?

Bland, I think you lucked out on this one. Had you shot the job, the headaches may have only begun.

Bland said:
...They even told me the 24-70 is the longest lens I can shoot....

That is the weirdest thing I have ever heard! I'm assuming that is the physical size of the lens?

Two good things, first they called today and said they had hired someone for the lighting and taking the shots! :) Second, is all this priceless information that has been posted on here.

Now that I'm not forced to take what they had on their shelf at our local camera store I'll be making a list and ordering what I need on line. I've been wanting to get this stuff for a long time to do car shots at night. Thanks for all the info, it's priceless!

On another note, you won't believe what I had to sign today on the release form to shoot this band. They even told me the 24-70 is the longest lens I can shoot. I can not use the pictures in any manner and I can even be sued. LOL

Peely22 said:
@msmoto, can you please take a pic of what you do with the umbrella. I have a fab mental image, and want to see how close it is. Please use duct tape :)

Sorry, I do not have this with me at present, but the bracket arrangement was a couple of aluminum straps with kayak foam and a connection behind the neck, sort of draped over the shoulders, with the umbrella attached to the left hand strap , actually it was clamped to a tab sticking up from the left hand strap, and the flash was mounted next to my left ear shooting up into the umbrella. A coiled extension cord connected flash to the hot shoe on the top of the camera. It gives a softer light than the small soft boxes, goes wherever you go, and people get out of your way. One does have to be a little careful not to bend over unless one has run a strap under the arms. I used this a couple times years ago on a shoot of a party where i had to move all around and wanted a directional soft light source.

I think Bland has the experience to figure this out...and do what he can do with the situation as it stands. The Lumiquest on the SB700 or what ever flash is used can also be held up over head by the left hand while the right hand shoots. Or an assistant can hold the soft fill while the photog shoots.

@msmoto, can you please take a pic of what you do with the umbrella. I have a fab mental image, and want to see how close it is. Please use duct tape :)

msmoto said:
My 2 cents.. I would use my SB800 into a 24" umbrella mounted about 2 feet above and left of my head. Then a few test shots 1/125th sec or 1/60th so as to find the ambient light, and finally fill the folks with the umbrella light, adjusting the fill so as to be about 1/2 stop less than complete. This, I think is what TTJ is suggesting, I like the soft umbrella better. This attaches to me via a shoulder bracket and usually duck tape. Or, the Lumiquest soft box II, about 6" X 8" on the camera is fine with the fill about 1/2 stop to one stop less than the overall. Lots of batteries and such. Gaffer's tape or duck tape will hold the soft box in the wind.

....

That is exactly what I was thinking, and then the thought of the wind blowing my stand across the parking lot with me running after it entered my head. I really would like to get a handheld (brolly?) with a umbrella with an off camera flash for similar situations. That is why I like the Fong gear or the LumiQuest (80-20 is what I use) as the wind is a problem with boxes if you are by yourself.

I can envision using a harder light as well if the background is good enough. It will be fun to see what you come up with!

My 2 cents.. I would use my SB800 into a 24" umbrella mounted about 2 feet above and left of my head. Then a few test shots 1/125th sec or 1/60th so as to find the ambient light, and finally fill the folks with the umbrella light, adjusting the fill so as to be about 1/2 stop less than complete. This, I think is what TTJ is suggesting, I like the soft umbrella better. This attaches to me via a shoulder bracket and usually duck tape. Or, the Lumiquest soft box II, about 6" X 8" on the camera is fine with the fill about 1/2 stop to one stop less than the overall. Lots of batteries and such. Gaffer's tape or duck tape will hold the soft box in the wind.

If the money is good enough, setting up a special shooting area with about three umbrellas, 1200 WS or more of strobes, powered by a generator or such from a pickup truck...or RV. Maybe even using the bands tour bus, if it has a logo on it, for backdrop...

I might think about some real crowd control, and having a good assistant to direct the folks exactly where you want them. Low angle or high angle shots are interesting in some of these, but I do not know what the end use is.

One other point, shooting at reduced power, 1/4, 1/8 should give a rapid recycle and allow at least a couple of shots per "group". I will say "On three" and then shoot on two so as to avoid blinks.

Oh, well... good luck!

Bland, I'd think this would be the perfect opportunity to utilize the Nikon CLS system with off camera flash since the shoot is at night and there would be no sunlight interference to screw with the signal from the master flash. Depending on how dim the streetlights are 1 flash could be just right but 2 offers more creative power. Keep in mind that the street lights would be directional from above so you might have to balance lighting on your subjects by setting your flash at a height so as to avoid shadows below the eyes and face. But then again, it's the same as concert lighting which you're an expert in shooting. Utilizing car headlights would be great also if they're not too close.
I suppose street/city lights could either be fluorescent or those ugly orange vaper lights. Those could screw with white balance. I'm sure you've done your homework to know which you're dealing with. You could probably get by without a soft box or umbrella (wind is an issue with using those outside) but could probably benefit from the stock diffuser or a G.Fong type diffuser.

Thanks, Tao and Rifqi. I'll go see what the store has on its shelf today and put something together.

Instead of worrying about headlights ruining your shot I would try to find ways to use them instead. Get a car behind the band and use it for backlight or get one on each side for rim lights.

Do you have any light modifiers or do you plan on getting something for this shoot specifically? If you have anything I would just bring the biggest one since you're shooting a group. If you don't have anything I would use the flash on camera as fill (in combination with the headlights for back or rim light) or just get an umbrella (it's cheap). Other than that you just have to find a balance between the available light and the flash that you like.

I would just think of it as shooting a Father/Bride at a wedding, keep the highlights, don't worry about loosing the shadows.

Fill flash (1/2 power), M-mode, Iso 400, depending on light strength, 1/5th shutter to get a bit of background in. F5.6 is where I would start and move the shutter speed up from there - that way I'm only moving one setting. If it is not working, I then would go "P" or "A" with the flash set at -1 and make sure the F-stop was at 5.6 or more. I would hope to overpower the street lights. I personally would use either a Gary Fong diffuser or a Lumiquest diffuser to soften the light and maybe add a warming filter to it.

The "parking lot" sounds like a crap-shoot of a situation but could give some cool backgrounds behind them.

Meet and greet in the parking lot? Wow, I hope you're being paid fairly, because that sounds brutally low budget.

Is job #1 going to be not having car headlights screw things up? I would think that you can show up with the most professional set-up imaginable and headlights would wreck all your careful work.

I've got a concert shoot Thursday night and they want me to also shoot the meet and greet with the band after the concert in the parking lot. The parking lot only has street lights and they are really weak.

So my question is what do I need and I know absolutely nothing about shooting remote speed lights. I have the SB700 and I'll be using my D800. They'll be probably 4 people from the band in each picture along with 2 fans.

Master, speedlights, soft boxes and etc?

Pride also heals with time. And mine took a beating that day.

@ proudgeek good catch with the 70-200...must have remembered what we were told early on..."Skin heals, cameras don't"

renardrichie said:

Turns out i got tons of good pic. Everytime the whale breached i pretty much felt like i'm the happiest kid in the world. This is the online album http://renardrichie.viewbook.com/album/whalewatchboston2012

These are fantastic. Where did you go out of? The Cape?

I was once the victim of my own excitement. Last summer my wife and I were hiking in Colorado in the Maroon Creek Wilderness. We'd been out for about five hours, and it had been raining on and off and the trail had gotten pretty slick. My wife was pretty anxious to be done and I had been lingering in the woods shooting groves of aspen trees using my 17-35.
When I caught up to her in a clearing, there were a handful of people gathered and speaking in hushed tones. They were all pointing at a juvenile moose who was grazing in the Maroon Lake, about 500 yards down the trail. I cursed myself for having the wrong lens, switched to my 70-200 as quickly as possible, and started to make my way toward the moose. Then I noticed a trail that would serve as a pretty good shortcut. Less defined and much steeper, but I could get to the moose in less than a minute. Just as I started to take the detour, my wife hissed at me, "Slow down and be careful." Her warning came just a moment too late. Three hurried steps down the trail and my feet went completely out from under me. My wife later said I went horizontal in the air before landing squarely on my back. By some miracle, I had the instinct to cradle the camera in my stomach and it suffered no damage. Dazed by not deterred, I made my way down to the moose (slower this time) and managed to get a few good shots before a park ranger warned me off.