@ R8R... well, I have shot about 15,000 RAW in my D4, processed in LR 4.1, all in color. What I have done maybe half a dozen times is simply to change to B & W in LR. What I do not know about is what actually happens to the data when in the camera, I set monochrome, yellow filter, then download to the computer.

Are you saying I still have a color image in the RAW file in the computer, even though the camera has delivered only a B & W with a filtered effect? And that is what I do not know anything about. Well, at my age, the computer is great but I never caught on and learned to program, use HTML, etc. even though I have published a website with over a thousand pages.

So, I do understand how the camera drops the RAW data in JPEG, as HDR in camera can only be done in JPEG.

Oh, and I do understand how LR simply creates a list of changes and never alters the image data. I occasionally go back to the beginning on photos and start over.

So, with what you have stated above, I will see what kind of fiddling I can do in LR with the B & W files.

Thanks much as I think your explanation is not only very concise, but understandable and helpful to a lot of folks.

msmoto said:
@ R8R OK, I have not actually taken anything out of the camera, so I would certainly guess you are correct. I know absolutely nothing about all this, but will do my experiments, see how it goes, then get the software you are all raving about...:-)

Are you saying you don't know about raw files, or black and white shooting on digital? Or just the software end of it?

Here's some notes about this, and I will presume anyone reading may know all or none of this, so take from it what you may -

Think of it like this:
RAW is a special kind of "negative".
jpg's, tif's, png's, etc are "prints".

RAW files are just that - they contain all the raw image data that the sensor captures. When you take a jpg in the camera, the camera itself is grabbing that raw data and processing it with certain settings and parameters, (Picture Control, white balance, EV, etc) then saving a finished jpg file.

If the camera is set to jpg only, it discards the raw data after writing the jpg to the card.

If you are shooting raw, what you have is a file that is a raw, uncompressed (or lossless compressed) tif image with a bunch of extra image data and an attached "preview" image all rolled in one.

When you adjust things in software on a raw file like exposure, white balance, contrast, etc, you are only adjusting the parameters in the extra data that dictate how the image is viewed. It doesn't affect the actual raw image. (kinda like adding filters to an enlarger when making a print from negative)

That's how software like Lightroom is "non destructive" - all the settings can be reset and you are looking at the image from where you started. (usually starting with a set of parameters that was written to the file from the camera in the first place...)

When you are happy with the final look, you can export to jpg or some other format, and all of the settings used to adjust the image are saved permanently to a new image with the export.

So if you are setting the camera to shoot black and white in raw format - it will still record all the essential image data - it's simply tagging the file for software viewing that the image should be black and white - but all this can be set back to color (or whatever you want). It only stays black and white permanently once you've made the export.

I shoot RAW and convert to B&W in lightroom. I do not like the monochrome setting in my D5000, but if you want when you shoot RAW you can always use viewNX and change to monochrome mode in post that is just like the in camera version.

Eric said:
Bob. Like Adam and Bland, I most often use Nik Software's SilverFX Pro. I use the plugin in Lightroom and it does a very good job for me.

I have used my Lightroom less than 5 times. I prefer the CS6, I assume, but will check that the NIK software is compatable. I think I already read that it is, but as I get older sometimes I think I read soemthing that I only thought.

It seems the NIK SilverFX keeps coming up :)

Another vote for Silver FX. I use it as a plug in for Aperture.

rschnaible said:
@Bland... Have you used other B&W software?

Lightroom is another one I like and also ViewNX2 has a good monochome when editing in raw.

@ R8R OK, I have not actually taken anything out of the camera, so I would certainly guess you are correct. I know absolutely nothing about all this, but will do my experiments, see how it goes, then get the software you are all raving about...:-)

Bob. Like Adam and Bland, I most often use Nik Software's SilverFX Pro. I use the plugin in Lightroom and it does a very good job for me.

At least for the duration of the B&W film class I'm in, I will have my F5 with me... been shooting mostly with the F5 and EL2 for the last few weeks actually. It's fun 'n stuff! Probably going to switch off to the F5 and D800 when that gets here, but keep the EL2 with different film ready to go. Most of my glass is G glass, so the EL2 is limited to a few older / redundant lenses.

msmoto said:
I am shooting RAW, in B & W, with a yellow filter...all digital, in camera...at least it says it is RAW, 14 Bit lossless compressed.

RAW files should retain all the color info. You're looking at the imbedded b/w preview in the RAW file. Final b/w output is typically a jpg or tif export of the parameters applied to (or subtracted from) the color RAW file.

rschnaible said:
@R8R.... I too have Lightroom and I am trying to determine if there are advantages to using BW dedicated software.

Only if you are not seeing what you want to see in Lightroom. Tweak it till you like it, save it as a preset.

I am shooting RAW, in B & W, with a yellow filter...all digital, in camera...at least it says it is RAW, 14 Bit lossless compressed. And, i will go out and shoot some for awhile, then when I see others are getting better results I will try all this Silver FX pro or whatever stuff.

I have too many projects on my plate....maybe I will shoot Detroit in B & W.

@msmoto... I have been thinking about the in camera settings but I am settling into shooting RAW (my preference) and then converting to B&W image... I may change my mind down the road as I learn more :)
@R8R.... I too have Lightroom and I am trying to determine if there are advantages to using BW dedicated software.
@Bland... Have you used other B&W software?

msmoto said:
OK, now for those who use programs. I am ready to learn....

For software I agree with Adam on the Silver FX, it's the best I've used.

http://www.niksoftware.com/silverefexpro/usa/entry.php

rschnaible said:
I realize this is an old thread, but I am thinking about B&W digital processing and wanted to get input from those who are doing this now. I am using photoshop CS6 and I also have Lightroom 4. What is the best (in your opinion B&W digital program) and why?

I usually shoot raw and convert to b/w in LR4, it gives me most anything I want. There are some great pre-sets but using the "Black and White Mix" sliders I can fine tune most anything I would have used a filter for.

When I feel adventurous, I set it to monochrome, jpg FINE only in the camera and what I get is what I get.

I've also just started processing my own b/w film (Ilford Delta 400) at home. It's crazy fun. I shoot with a F100 I just picked up for $100. I scan the negatives to tif files. So far I've kinda munched a few rolls (note to self: start with 24 exposure rolls instead of 36...) but some of the frames are really great.

Well, you have me thinking... So, I looked in the D4 manual, grabbed the camera and started shooting the color balance card I have on the desktop of my computer.

Here is a link to the color card, so you can use it on your computer and then start adjusting the camera menu items.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fantinesfotos/6823093006/in/photostream/lightbox/

I shot monochrome, no filter, yellow filter, and red filter. The differences are quite striking and one can learn a lot about what effects you want to achieve in the final results. In camera monochrome does have a contrast adjustment according to the manual.

And this is how I would do B & W. The D800 has this as well, but cannot comment on the other Nikon Bodies. And, as one can utilize the advantage of a digital color filter for the B & W, the original data is correct before it even gets to the card.

OK, now for those who use programs. I am ready to learn....

I realize this is an old thread, but I am thinking about B&W digital processing and wanted to get input from those who are doing this now. I am using photoshop CS6 and I also have Lightroom 4. What is the best (in your opinion B&W digital program) and why?

You can find the 15 day trial on the Nik software website. I think the trial saves a Nik Software watermark on your photos until you unlock it and purchase the full version, but I'm not sure about that.

http://www.niksoftware.com/silverefexpro/usa/entry.php?tab=2

I'm not a big fan of this particular plug in. It's a pricey ($200USD) and there's really nothing it does that you can't do with some time on photoshop. It just does everything for you with one click. Also their are lots of free photoshop plug-ins available that do just as good of a job and are FREE.

http://www.atncentral.com/bw_conv.htm

Just click on the little yellow picture frames to see examples of each plug-in.

Hi,I started B&W back in the 60's whilst at college and had my own darkroom until the late 90's, I am happy with PS now. I also started with version 3, it was given to me by a friend although I didn't have a clue what to do with it. I returned to college to learn PS and I am still learning and I don't see that ever ending, there are very smart people on this and other forums and I am willing to learn anything new and to try out new things.. LOL.

I can imagine in some circumstances that a process could easily have 51 steps. I would be very interested to know exactly what the steps were.

Some of you have mentioned SilverFX, I will try it out ...is it available on a trial?

Well as the photo club consists mainly of women (quite pretty too) then I don't consider that hour a wasted one :D

monty - and how long does it take You to go from one border to another - 60 min? :) - sorry, couldn't resist, hope You forgive my my friend; as for labs, I also don't have any problems to find them, as there's a great lab around 30 min drive from my place. The only problem is price. I was shooting some velvia lately, and the cost for scanning and development was around $18+ additional $10 for velvia itself, gives You +/- $.75 per picture... well I prefer digital darkroom, where the prices are much lower and You can easily convert any photo to: B&W, Sepia, cross-processed.

????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k

Gosh I miss that show :^)

I see what you are doing here Niko... your trying to win the last post!

What magazine (month, year) was the article written in snaketail?

Back to the OP, What was the 51 step process? I'd be curious to know what they do with all those steps. Seems like developing the film would be easier LOL.