LR creates a copy of the file that the plugin can then work with.

A little off topic, but just out of interest:

When you use plugins in LR, how does it work? Does LR create a copy of the file that the plugin can then work with (like Aperture), or is the plugin integrated as a "module" somehow, like it was in the original LR interface and workflow?

When I enable the lens profile in my copy of LR4.3 I can clearly see complex distortions being corrected in the image on the screen - not just barrel and pinching distortion. It has been like that at least since I got LR3.

I don't have LR, but from what I heard they integrated pretty much all the algorithms and functionality from the Camera Raw module in Photoshop, so it would be weird if they didn't use the same lens DB and as the Camera Raw.

I think you can also select the lens manually, just found this "tutorial" on photographylife: http://photographylife.com/lightroom-3-lens-correction maybe that helps.

I may not have the newest profiles loaded - My LR applied the 14-24 and didn't have the 16-35 profile. Maybe the idea failed on that point.

Auto sensing

Auto then me pulling the distortion slider

Same as the last photo just pulled the color out and increased contrast, etc. to see the lines better.

My conclusion LR does not do the complex distortion removal. I did a quick search and couldn't find anything either way, which to me means, No.

The distortion that is most discussed is spherical... About all "non-distorting" wide angles will keystone too... The most tame prime I know photogs use is the old 28mm

Positron said:
Lightroom is also nondestructive and only costs $150, but if you already have Aperture that's not a particularly helpful piece of information.

It does, however, correct complex distortion, but only on a lens-by-lens basis.

Aperture cost me 80 and directly integrated with my already existing photo library. I bought it from the app store at 2 in the morning sitting in my PJs in the dark. That and I'm sort of an adobe anti-fanboy. Not sure why I just have an immediate aversion to anything adobe. *shrug* And I'm extremely happy with aperture so why change....
anyway. Aperture does simple barrel and pincushion very simply and extremely smoothly. (it does everything that way) just leaves those waves. I just might have to save up for a 14-24 or wait a few years for used ones to start showing up.

Lightroom is also nondestructive and only costs $150, but if you already have Aperture that's not a particularly helpful piece of information.

It does, however, correct complex distortion, but only on a lens-by-lens basis.

aquarian_light said:
... but then again some of those articles were written half a decade ago...

The days when that was a "long-long time ago". ;)

sevencrossing said:
"Lightroom last I checked only corrected for simple barrel and pincushion images. Not complex waves as posted above."

I think CS6 will, you can get a free 30 day trail, to find out if it will do what you want

I don't think Lightroom has complex either.

@chris_weinert - If you want to PM me and send me the orig file of the ones you posted with the detail, I'll kick it through lightroom to see.

Just checked it out. Can't say anything about the micro quality of the image because the only "brick wall" like image I had is this one, and it's at f/11 and with an extreme perspective, so not very good for sharpness comparisons. But the distortion pattern removal is pretty much the same for PTLens and for Adobe's Camera Raw module.

You can download the following images and then click through them to see the comparison (nevermind the different WB settings):

The big issue with plugins in Aperture is indeed the workflow: It produces a separate TIFF file that has all the RAW adjustments rendered into it, so it's just like running the image through an external editor. So you might want to apply the plugin processing as the last step in your adjustment workflow.

aquarian_light said:
@chris I don't have either lightroom or photoshop. I edit in Aperture. PS and LR just make actions I can do in Aperture take 50% longer with sub menus and layers. 99.9% of what I use on every image is one click away and Aperture is completely non-destructive and never actually edits raw data untill exported.

You can work non-destructive in PS, too, but I know what you mean. The two applications are simply different use cases.

I use Aperture, too, and the solution for that workflow seems to be PTLens (click). It's also available as a plugin for Aperture, but the downside of the plugin things for Aperture is that, while it's still non-destructive workflow-wise, they actually create a new file with their processing, meaning more space needed if you use them heavily.

I don't know about the quality of PTLens, but I guess I'm gonna check it out, since it has a free 10-image trial.

"Lightroom last I checked only corrected for simple barrel and pincushion images. Not complex waves as posted above."

I think CS6 will, you can get a free 30 day trail, to find out if it will do what you want

chris_weinert said:
No, it definitely does correct even the weirdest distortion (and CAs) of most lenses. What Spraynpray means is the lens correction module that works with dedicated lens profiles, not the simple module where you just have a generic slider pincushion vs. barrel. This module is the same asin the Camera Raw converter of Photoshop, so if you have Photoshop, you can just use that as well to check it out.

Hint: You can open any image file with the Camera Raw converter by going to "File -> Open" and then in the dialogue box selecting "Camera Raw" for Format, but leaving "Enable:" with All readable documents. You can simply select a JPEG and click on "open" and it will be run through the Camera Raw module, giving you all those lens correction features.

Edit: What about PT Lens? Does anyone have experience with that?

Alright! An answer! I don;t mean to be sarcastic and cynical, but "they all do and it doesn't matter" totally doesn't help. Especially that brick wall comment.... I've done my homework, and what I've read pretty much everywhere is that complex wave distortions are just a fact of life, but then again some of those articles were written half a decade ago. Which is makes Chris' lovely post the exact reason why I'm here asking.

@chris I don't have either lightroom or photoshop. I edit in Aperture. PS and LR just make actions I can do in Aperture take 50% longer with sub menus and layers. 99.9% of what I use on every image is one click away and Aperture is completely non-destructive and never actually edits raw data untill exported. But that's neither here nor there. Fact is, I'm a huge fan of ultra wides, not so much a fan of having to live with complex distortions. It's almost 2013 people... someone's figured out a way to deal with it that doesn't require $500 software or a $2000 lens, I'm sure.

aquarian_light said:
Lightroom last I checked only corrected for simple barrel and pincushion images. Not complex waves as posted above.

No, it definitely does correct even the weirdest distortion (and CAs) of most lenses. What Spraynpray means is the lens correction module that works with dedicated lens profiles, not the simple module where you just have a generic slider pincushion vs. barrel. This module is the same asin the Camera Raw converter of Photoshop, so if you have Photoshop, you can just use that as well to check it out.

Hint: You can open JPEG and TIFF image files with the Camera Raw converter by going to "File -> Open", selecting the image file in the browser and then in the dialogue box selecting "Camera Raw" for Format, but leaving "Enable:" with All readable documents. It will be run through the Camera Raw module, giving you all those lens correction features.

Edit: What about PT Lens? Does anyone have experience with that?

TaoTeJared said:
Rarely can you ever notice it unless you take pictures of brick walls for a living.

:-D

Oh man, that comment is gonna keep me entertained for quite some time! Thanks, TTJ!

TaoTeJared said:

I have never had any of the complex photos make or break a photo or even come close.

*link removed*

spraynpray said:
Do you use Lightroom? If so any distortion can be removed on import.

Lightroom last I checked only corrected for simple barrel and pincushion images. Not complex waves as posted above.

Do you use Lightroom? If so any distortion can be removed on import.

If you are going to that type of perfection, DXO has a program that can correct the complex distortions as well as a few others. I have never seen them do anything much more, and never felt they were worth it.

I have never had any of the complex photos make or break a photo or even come close.

If you need wide angle perfection, pick up a 60mm macro, go vertical, and pan and stitch the landscape together using only the middle 50%. That is the only way you are going to get that.

TaoTeJared said:
All moderate to wide angles have that complex distortion, even zooms. Some more than others and some less. Rarely can you ever notice it unless you take pictures of brick walls for a living.

Or with straight horizons... or architecture. Brick wall comparisons are and overused, overexaggerated cliché. But imperfections on brick wall shots still apply to "real world" photography in certain situations that I have previously stated.
Thusly, I will defer you to the second half... correcting it. Simple distortion is easy, I have yet to find a way to correct complex.

All moderate to wide angles have that complex distortion, even zooms. Some more than others and some less. Rarely can you ever notice it unless you take pictures of brick walls for a living.

I've read many reviews online about the nikon 20 primes, I would absolutely love having one of these lenses were it not for their complex mustache distortions that make my horizons all wavy and curvy! Any lenses 20 or below that don't have this? ( i couldn't find any) or a program that can correct for this? (I couldn't find any)
And btw, please don't recomend me the 14-24 or the 16-35... I've seen those and they're great, but I don't have a thousand to trash on overpriced zooms when old manual focus primes go for fractions of the cost : )
Massive simple distortion is just cause it's easily fixed, just cant be able to surf the waves in my supposed-to-be-straight horizons!

P.S. A hard infinity focus stop is a BIG +1 in my book for astro shots.
P.S.S I have also looked into the voigtlander 20mm and the zeiss 21mm. The Voigtlander has slighter worse mustache and the zeiss is too bloody expensive.