I love this forum. Great comments and questions. Something tells me that someone on this forum could answer my question.. I current have the D300 and want to upgrade. Based on the rumors of new releases this calendar year, what is the best Nokon DSLR in the $1000 - 1,700 price range???

JP

I want to thank everyone for their input. Today I went to a camera store and held a D90, D300, and the D700. I know they are all nice cameras, but the the last 2 are too big for me. So I'm happy to say, I placed my order for the D90. Now I have money left over for better glass or keep it in the kitty. And I also plan to keep my D60 in my golf bag the next time that Bald Eagle flys by. I missed a few good shots with my old slow digital camera. You all know the delay I'm talking about on the first point and shoot digital cameras put out a few years back.
Thanks again for all your suggestions.

NikoDoby said:
Yes I know who you are. I done gone two college :^P

But I agree that going from a D60 to a D90 isn't really that big of a jump as some people make it out to be. I'm not saying the D90 isn't a better camera but I mean you're better off waiting one more generation and instead investing in lenses.

I understand what you're saying Niko but I think it depends a lot on what people enjoy shooting. The AF is a lot faster on the D90 and for those that enjoy shooting planes in flight and etc., I would think it would be a good move to go from a D60 to a D90. Low light is another advantage with the D90 as it's ISO is superb to the D60's ISO.

I will say if someone is going to the D90 just for its CMOS and 11 Point 3D Focus, it wouldn't be worth it. Either way, both cameras are great and I use both my D60 and D90.

Anaxagoras said:
From Wikipedia - "Anaxagoras; (c. 500 BC – 428 BC) was a Pre-Socratic Greek philosopher."

Yes I know who you are. I done gone two college :^P

But I agree that going from a D60 to a D90 isn't really that big of a jump as some people make it out to be. I'm not saying the D90 isn't a better camera but I mean you're better off waiting one more generation and instead investing in lenses.

NikoDoby said:

Jeez, why so many questions Anaxagoras? What are you some kind of philosopher?

Wow! You've just gone right up in my estimation, Niko. From Wikipedia - "Anaxagoras; (c. 500 BC – 428 BC) was a Pre-Socratic Greek philosopher."

Anyway, back on topic - I don't think the D90 Is sufficiently better than the D60 to justify the cost. Personally, I'd wait for the 'new' D90, or buy a faster lens.

Anaxagoras said:
Jonny, I've not been here much for the last couple of weeks. "Goldilocks"? Why?

Because he likes to break into people's homes and eat their porridge :^)

Anaxagoras said:
"Goldilocks" is in blue, not white?

Jeez, why so many questions Anaxagoras? What are you some kind of philosopher? There's no deeper meaning. Blue just matches Jonny's mesmerizing eyes :^)

I wouldn't buy a D90 if I already had a D60. I'd wait for the D90 replacement and get that instead. If you don't have the money for it then save up and just keep using the D60. It's a wonderful little camera despite what "everyone" says.

spraynpray said:

...you learn faster if you DON'T have the option to switch it to auto?

True indeed. But like most things in life, if you WANT to learn you have to have some willpower.

I must say, I rely on the auto features quite a lot these days - they're just so good. Obviously, I adjust shutter-speed/aperture for most shots, but I tend to leave everything else on auto most of the time. Even when I do override the auto settings, I usually take the same shot on fully auto just in case (time permitting).

"Goldilocks" is in blue, not white?

jonnyapple said:
Since asking a mod to change my role to "Platinum Member" for April Fools' Day, I've been at the mercy of the mods' renaming whims.

I wondered what all that was about too...

@anaxagoras: I realise that you can switch modes on those cameras, but my point (which I didn't make clear) was that you learn faster if you DON'T have the option to switch it to auto?

Anaxagoras said:
Jonny, I've not been here much for the last couple of weeks. "Goldilocks"? Why?

I honestly have no idea, John. Since asking a mod to change my role to "Platinum Member" for April Fools' Day, I've been at the mercy of the mods' renaming whims.

As I mentioned in another thread, my previous roles were either too presumptuous or not nearly presumptuous enough. Goldilocks seems 'just right.' (Except that I have brown hair.)

But whenever a mod has a new idea, I won't complain. ;-)

spraynpray said:

I do not agree that getting a model with good auto settings (D90 or D5000) will help him learn anything about photography in this case. It will help him get pretty good results more often if he is not familiar with all the various settings of his camera.

Cameras auch as the D90 allow you to switch automation on or off. Either selected features, e.g.auto-focus, or switch the camera completely to manual. And you still have the choice of fully auto when you don't want to learn about photography - you just want an easy P&S. So you have the best of both worlds.

My very first 35mm camera (Russian) was truly manual everything; my second added a manual light-meter. And yes, I quickly learnt the fundamentals of photography!

Jonny, I've not been here much for the last couple of weeks. "Goldilocks"? Why?

John

Wow, I think you are right bland, jonny apple hit the nail on the head. I am looking forward to the better focus and the screen along with the others he mentioned. I'm hoping I'll be getting better use shooting in low light with my 50mmm 1.4 lens too?

Paul, I went from a D60 to a D90 this year and I agree with everything jonnyapple stated.

Welcome, Paul. The sensor on the d90/d5000 is great. I think it's more about next generation than about CMOS/CCD, but I could be wrong. I like the D60, too. What are you upgrading for? I'll tell you why I would switch and you see if any of these are worth the cost to upgrade (it's not a complete list—just what would be most important to me in order of importance):
-two command dials. I shoot manual usually and one doesn't cut it.
-AF screw. Autofocus with a $120 50mm 1.8 thing of beauty (and other 'old' lenses). 'Nough said.
-CLS commander
-Better AF
-Better ergonomics and UI.
-The screen is beautiful on the d90 and up. I never thought I'd care but I do.
-more standard battery if you ever choose to ugrade. Again. ;-)

The part where he says he picked up a 5000 and used the same settings as he did with the D60 and the pictures from the 5000 were better. Could it be the difference in sensors? The D60 uses the CCD Sensor and the 5000 has the CMOS Sensor. I too have a D60 and ready to move up. Sounds like the D90 might be a good choice.

Thanks in advance

OM-10 for me :-) sure had fun with that special little kit. The dynamic off the film plane metering was sweet! They still cant do that now ! Sure was fun playing with photos at night, You just press the shutter and then start painting with flashes and torches until it has enough light then the shutter closes.. easy!

I think you're right, spraynpray. There would be no harm in getting a D300s except that it costs double what the D90 does and almost triple what the D5000 does (okay, not quite).

The D90 would be as good for learning manual settings as the D300s if you're willing to put the effort into it, and either one will be much easier than learning on an OM-1 (I still have my OM-2—those are great cameras) because with digital you get instant feedback on what to change.

I think generally when you don't know why you need a D300s, if you're honest one of the other cameras is probably right for you.

I swapped my D90 for a D200 for past couple of weeks, and I have to admit I miss the bigger body of my D300. My grip for the D90 helps, but the D300's ergonomics were just so perfect it hurts sometimes.

Although nobody has posted on this thread for a month, I'm going reopen it to throw my 2c down here in case anybody else reads it like I just did:

I thought I would recount my own experience as a 2 x newbie (back in film and now in digital). I do not agree that getting a model with good auto settings (D90 or D5000) will help him learn anything about photography in this case. It will help him get pretty good results more often if he is not familiar with all the various settings of his camera. When I first started out in photography I bought the Olympus OM1 which is a manual only camera. That meant that if I didn't want to lose all my pictures and waste money, I HAD to pay attention to the settings.

All I am saying is that he would most likey get worse pics at first, but better pictures later with the D300s because when the D300s was mastered he would know WHY he was getting good or bad shots. It is likely to remain a mystery to somebody who never uses the manual ranges.

Please feel free to tell me why I'm wrong, debate is healthy and a good way to learn (besides clicking the shutter)!

Ronin.1 said:
I recently faced the same choice between a D90 and a D300s. There are several things that I considered which, perhaps, have not been mentioned or have not been discussed to the degree I was concerned about them.

The metering system in the in the D300s is the 1005 pixel system whereas the D90 uses the same (420 segment) system as the D40. I have not been thrilled with the performance of the D40 Matrix metering. In fact I do not use it. I use either the center weighted or spot metering depending upon the scene. I hope that what I have read about the metering system of the D300s proves to be true.

The dual card system is important to me to capture with RAW + JPEG and still have a high frame rate for nature photography and airshows (an aircraft making a high speed low pass is not in range for long).

Although mentioned before, the weather sealing is nice to have when doing landscape/nature photography.

The D300s costs roughly twice as much as the D90 which makes the choice difficult as they seem to have similar, if not the same, sensors. Strangely, DXO rates the D90 above the D300s in their sensor ratings. I still have not figured that one out.

Other differences that were an important consideration to me were the differences in the auto-focus systems, IIRC the D90 has 11 auto-focus points (1 cross-type) and the D300s has 51 focus points (15 cross-type). The D300s will do auto-exposure bracketing from 2 to 9 frames whereas the D90 will do 2 or 3 frames. Both are useful if you want to do true HDR photography.

The shutter speed difference have already been mentioned, but the D90 shutter is "tested" to 100,000 cycles and the D300s shutter is rated for 150,000 cycles although there are statements that the performance drops off after 50,000 cycles.

There are a number of other, smaller differences, such as the D300s having a flash sync terminal and a marginally faster flash sync speed.

The D300s has mirror lockup if that is of any concern to you.

I went ahead and got the D300s. Probably the biggest factors I considered in the choice were the exposure system and auto-focus system differences. Obviously, what differences are important to you and in which order are a matter of your personal tastes and intended uses. That said, I do not believe that you would regret either choice. Good luck.

Totaly agree with you !
The 3D Color Matrix Metering System II is great ! And I ove this camera much for this !
The D300s has better color, better highlights, better shadows, it's sharper because it fixes lens flaws, and its superior AF system and viewfinder free us to compose more freely than D90 !

The D90 is amazingly durable for it's "cheap" build making the price of the D300s not worth it. What makes the D300s valuable is it's framerate and 51 autofocus points which if you need the D90 doesn't come close to it in terms of speed. Also the frame buffer on the D90 will choke you.

Still If you don't need it don't pay it. The D90 is very adequate for many shooting situations and is far superior to the D60 or D40 in that sense.

If we all could just afford D700's ;)

As monty mentioned here I would love to hear from jmichael99 who started this thread.
I wonder if we scarred him too much with all this mambo-jumbo or he just decided to go out and take some pictures while we decide what is the best option for him ...

I recently faced the same choice between a D90 and a D300s. There are several things that I considered which, perhaps, have not been mentioned or have not been discussed to the degree I was concerned about them.

The metering system in the in the D300s is the 1005 pixel system whereas the D90 uses the same (420 segment) system as the D40. I have not been thrilled with the performance of the D40 Matrix metering. In fact I do not use it. I use either the center weighted or spot metering depending upon the scene. I hope that what I have read about the metering system of the D300s proves to be true.

The dual card system is important to me to capture with RAW + JPEG and still have a high frame rate for nature photography and airshows (an aircraft making a high speed low pass is not in range for long).

Although mentioned before, the weather sealing is nice to have when doing landscape/nature photography.

The D300s costs roughly twice as much as the D90 which makes the choice difficult as they seem to have similar, if not the same, sensors. Strangely, DXO rates the D90 above the D300s in their sensor ratings. I still have not figured that one out.

Other differences that were an important consideration to me were the differences in the auto-focus systems, IIRC the D90 has 11 auto-focus points (1 cross-type) and the D300s has 51 focus points (15 cross-type). The D300s will do auto-exposure bracketing from 2 to 9 frames whereas the D90 will do 2 or 3 frames. Both are useful if you want to do true HDR photography.

The shutter speed difference have already been mentioned, but the D90 shutter is "tested" to 100,000 cycles and the D300s shutter is rated for 150,000 cycles although there are statements that the performance drops off after 50,000 cycles.

There are a number of other, smaller differences, such as the D300s having a flash sync terminal and a marginally faster flash sync speed.

The D300s has mirror lockup if that is of any concern to you.

I went ahead and got the D300s. Probably the biggest factors I considered in the choice were the exposure system and auto-focus system differences. Obviously, what differences are important to you and in which order are a matter of your personal tastes and intended uses. That said, I do not believe that you would regret either choice. Good luck.

i honestly don't see the reason to argue one over the other, they are both VERY different and for different purposes.

I would say a D300s makes sense for an event/sports shooter (possibly birdlife shooter) given FPS, 100% viewfinder, and the AF.

The D90 is pretty damn capable, and I have been quite pleased with the "step down" from a D200 to the D90 - you are just forced to rememorize some button placement compared to the D3s/D300s/D700/D200 series AND of course bear in mind that it's not as sealed, won't be able to "see" as much through the VF, and have to get SD cards. . . .it's been an okay transition, and will be an excellent backup to any of the D300s/D3s out there. . .

Sure, if your subject isn't moving much. If Im out shooting a predator, particularly predatory birds, a whole lot of stuff happens in 1 second to capture. And sometimes the focus slips a little while you are tracking something in flight or something running and you only get one or two genuinely "good" shots. So Im all about getting those extra two and a half shots to increase the possibility of getting the shot I was after.

SquamishPhoto said:
I beg to differ. If you are an enthusiast wildlife photographer the difference is enormous.

Depends on the wildlife photographer I think. Many make do with 4.5 FPM :-)

adamz said:
FPS - unless You shot professionally 4.5 and 7 is not a big deal.

I beg to differ. If you are an enthusiast wildlife photographer the difference is enormous.