Let's keep the EVIL discussion to a single thread. This thread is almost a year old and was mere speculation. The other thread has all the most recent info and specs.

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=3889

Just carry both, MCM. D7000 and NEX-7 would be a great combination. I need to go ask around about the buffer size of the nex-5n because mine fills up after 4 frames when I have the camera set to 10fps drive mode. Abysmal. I think I may have just realized my problem while typing though. I've got lens corrections on right now... I'll have to sleep on it and play around tomorrow.

What a devilish disappointment. It is not a pleasure any more to own Nikon products. First they made us wait an eternity for the replacement of the D700 but they came up with the D7000... Don´t get me wrong, the D7000 it’s an excellent camera, I own one (with a Tokina lens), but soon after Sony came out with the Translucent cameras, still there is no D800, Nikon uses Sony´s sensors and who knows what else…. Now Nikon has been making us wait for and EVIL which should have been an angel, but evil Nikon is. What is this mirrorless, fun less, useless, retro tech toy Nikon is expecting us to wait for when Sony has already the next best NEX-7…. There is such a long and getting longer list for the NEX-7 that I now spend much more time with the competition, sonyalpharummors.com, reading every day more exciting comments, that on now boring nikonrumors.com ( but please, let me very clearly note that I mean boring because of Nikon and not because of the good people at this excellent nikonians source; who has a Nikon and does not know about nikonrumors.com ?, what good movie can the best director create with a once well know but now almost defunct repetitive actor? )… exnikonnowsonyrummors.com will be next. There is no reason to care anymore for Nikon; yes I have an APT Holman pre amp and a Nakamichi tape recorder and a Mark Levinson CD player and Stax´s, but heck…. for the past 10 years I have only been listening to my Ipod (It came out in October 2001). Even Ken is a Leica man now. Hey…. I had a Nikon too, I will be saying soon while carrying in my neck a NEX. What should I do with my ThinkTank now?

The 20 1.7 is a great lens for that as well.

I do use a nikon adapter on my parents Oly - try a 85mm 1.8 (170mm equ) 105 2.8, or the 70-200mmm 2.8 (140-400) and you will love the adapter!

Ahh I have been waiting for Nikon to come out with an EVIL camera. So far to no avail. A week a go or so there was a pretty good sale on Panasonic GF1 from Sammy's. So I got one. It will come in on Friday. To hell with Nikon. I can get an adapter for pretty much any mount for GF1. But why would I want to have a huge ass lens attached to a small portable camera. That defeats the very raison d'être for such a camera. It's suppose to be portable.

Now I will just get myself the 14mm 2.5 prime for it and an optical viewfinder. I will be set. Thanks Nikon, even if you would come out with an EVIL camera it would be overpriced putting it out of my budget.

Hi,

It appears to me that particular market is pretty swamped with cameras; most of them are not unique.

The rarefied X1 and X100 have special 'built-in wallet' exclusivity - whether they can earn their chops or not.

I guess I'm saying that I really don't know what Nikon is going to do to matter in the market that doesn't seem to have much focus.

If they aren't going to do an F mount, and Niko has the skinny on that, then at least I hope they have an adapter that marries perfectly with F lenses. That would be a bone.

My best,

Mike

I don't think you can include the Fuji X100 in the discussion about mirrorless cameras as it's price and fixed lens mean it's a niche product along the lines of the Leica X1 which is £1400.
Interesting comparison between the GF1 and X1 here: luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/x1-field.shtml

Gareth said:
I am looking at the x100 for school as I have been taking all the pics they have got very used to great image quality and shallow DOF.

The EP-1 is far too slow on AF, you are right TTJ.

If the X100 has far better AF and image quality than the EP-1 and NEX-5 then it's a winner.

For school there is no need for more lenses, and that would actually cause issues with dust on the sensor. 35mm is perfect if it has minimal barrel distortion. Optimizing the lens and sensor is genius in this situation.

At school I can just tell them to shoot F2 for everything except group shots. There is even the auto filter or whatever it's called to drop out two stops outside and still shoot F2 1/4000.

Nikon doesn't need to fight oly/pan/sony. they need to fight fuji. they need to make something for pros and advanced amateurs. dont tell me the NEX is, I still can't find a way to manually select shutter speed and aperture at the same time, and I have to go into menus to even try. I told a collegue to buy one and learn to use manual everything. She just keeps it on full auto with the horribel kit lense. I told her she would have been better off buying my old Canon SX10is with 270EX flash for less, but she wanted reduced DOF. She can't be bothered adjusting anything so she doesn't get good results.

I don't know why you would choose the X100 over a cheaper DSLR, it seems like a better idea to me. The fact that you can't change lenses (yet maybe?) really isn't worth $1000 to me.

"Nikon doesn't need to fight oly/pan/sony. they need to fight fuji. they need to make something for pros and advanced amateurs."
I don't think that's right Gareth, I know many who use the GF1 as a camera they carry all the time, the advanced features and quality are there, and from what I've read the GF2 is better again.
The X100 is £1000, the GF1 + 20mm is £450 ?
The one thing that the Fuji X100 has that others don't is desirability, people love the way it looks.
If one of the camera manufacturers manages to combine that desirability with photographic abilityn and price they'll have their iPhone product.

NikoDoby said:
The new EVIL camera won't have an Fmount. It will be something new. I'm sure Nikon will sell an Fmount adapter for it though.

Grumble...If it can use G lenses with AF etc. that would be good enough for me, otherwise an adapter is just a band-aid with a hole in the middle.

+1 on the Fuji's X100 - although costly, it seems to have the most potential since Sigma's DP series was a let down, I mean released. High ISO quality will be key for that camera.

I am looking at the x100 for school as I have been taking all the pics they have got very used to great image quality and shallow DOF.

The EP-1 is far too slow on AF, you are right TTJ.

If the X100 has far better AF and image quality than the EP-1 and NEX-5 then it's a winner.

For school there is no need for more lenses, and that would actually cause issues with dust on the sensor. 35mm is perfect if it has minimal barrel distortion. Optimizing the lens and sensor is genius in this situation.

At school I can just tell them to shoot F2 for everything except group shots. There is even the auto filter or whatever it's called to drop out two stops outside and still shoot F2 1/4000.

Nikon doesn't need to fight oly/pan/sony. they need to fight fuji. they need to make something for pros and advanced amateurs. dont tell me the NEX is, I still can't find a way to manually select shutter speed and aperture at the same time, and I have to go into menus to even try. I told a collegue to buy one and learn to use manual everything. She just keeps it on full auto with the horribel kit lense. I told her she would have been better off buying my old Canon SX10is with 270EX flash for less, but she wanted reduced DOF. She can't be bothered adjusting anything so she doesn't get good results.

The new EVIL camera won't have an Fmount. It will be something new. I'm sure Nikon will sell an Fmount adapter for it though.

I think if Nikon utilized their existing F mount then it would be a huge hit and would sell a ton of them. The mount is small enough for sure.

Price is the big issue with these types of cameras. I picked up a used E-P1 with the 14-42mm lens for real cheap ($300) for my parents. The thing is, after picking up a 20mm, extra battery, memory, flash, filters, Nikon adapter, battery charger, etc. it still cost close to $1000 for the whole setup. I should have just got them a LX5, G11 or a D7000 looking back on it. Image quality is marginally better than my G11 at 800-1600 but is not even in the ballpark of my D300 even at low Iso-s. I'm not even going to get into the AF, frame rate, recycle times and other items.

That being said, it is a nice camera, can take some great photos and they enjoy it (which was the point). It does hit a good consumer market segment but for the $ IMO theses cameras have yet to prove they are worth $400-$600 over a high end P&S.

Nikon has a steep hill to climb - I hope they learn from the other companies and make something worthwhile. I am excited to see what they come up with.

Boxi please do a forum search. There are a ton of these types of threads on Nikon's EVIL camera. We don't have to start a new thread every time there's new speculation.

http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=2867
http://nikonrumors.com/forum/topic.php?id=1637

Drab said:
Why do you think Nikon will only release "a" camera, broxibear?

And regardless, one either chases a market or concedes it. There is no (successful) middle ground.

They could well have more than one model, I don't know ?
I know a few photographers who have mirrorless cameras to supplement their dslr gear and none have bought into a system, just a body and lens.
Maybe I'm looking at this in the wrong way but I just don't see this working...big finacial risk to introduce a new mount system an all that entails.

Why do you think Nikon will only release "a" camera, broxibear?

And regardless, one either chases a market or concedes it. There is no (successful) middle ground.

Hi,

I think broxibear means that "Nikon's potential ownership" of the market is small since there's so many players that are firmly established. I'm not sure if I were making decisions if I would even try at this point to get in this late in the game unless I had something really great to offer.

I haven't been too impressed by Nikon's point and shoot cameras of the past anyway. It has always seemed like 'me, too' technology. The P7000, and I could be very wrong, looks like a reworked G11.

If they are going to jump into mirrorless cameras, they will really have to do something big and something right. I don't even know what that would be.

My best,

Mike

You're right markogts the overall mirrorless market is big, but a Nikon camera can't span a price range of £350 to £1000...if it's priced at the lower end it has to compete against the cameras I mentioned above, if it's the higher end then will people buy it instead of a dslr, and will dslr users be prepared to spend that amount on a extra carry with them camera ?
That's what I meant by the market being small.

The lenses also need to be small too, or else you get monsters like the NEX-5 that have a small body with a large lens.

Not sure how Nikon is going to pull it off with at least an APS-C sized sensor.

I agree with the opinion of Thom Hogan: the two types of photographer you mention need completely different cameras, albeit both mirrorless: trying to make a camera for both is a mistake. A DSLR user needs manual controls and configurable quick access buttons. Market seems to be quite big, looking at 2010 shares.

There's a thread on the main blog I'm sure you've all read about the Nikon mirrorless system and I'd like to hear some opinions because some of the comments being posted are ridiculous.
The whole point of a mirrorless camera is that it's small,lightweight and has better image quality than a normal compact.
It's aimed at two types of photographer: a dslr user who will stick it in their pocket when they don't want to carry around all their dslr gear but still need the image quality, and someone who wants more than a compact but doesn't want the weight, price, complexity etc of a dslr.
I think Nikon has a real problem because that market is not very big and Panasonic, Olympus and Sony are already in it and then there's the issue of price?
The Sony NEX-5 + 16mm is £400, an Olympus E-PL1 + 14-42mm is £350 and the Panasonic Lumix GF1 + 20mm is £450 ?
These cameras are going to be the competition so the price has to be similar or no one's going to buy it. I know Fuji has their X100 around £1000 but that's a different type of camera for an even smaller market.
Nothing wrong with a Nikon mirrorless system but it has to be the right price.