Nikon DL cameras shipping date now listed as January 2017; DL price increase in the UK?

Nikon-DL-compact-premium-cameras
Few weeks ago I reported that the Nikon DL cameras are rumored to start shipping in January 2017. B&H has now also changed their shipping date to January 2017 for all three DL models:

nikon-dl-camera-shipping-date

Another bad news is that Nikon UK now lists higher prices for all three DL models compared to the prices already listed at WEX Photographic and Jessops:

nikon-dl-camera-uk-price-increase
Yesterday Sony announced a new RX100 V camera that will most likely start shipping before the end of the year.

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  • 1741

    The price could have another increase in the uk as the pound as gone down, hopefully it’ll recover soon

    • Spy Black

      I think it doesn’t really matter anymore. Not only have they been usurped by various other cameras, missing the Holidays pretty much is death for the DL series.

      • James Donahue

        It could be the beginning of the End for Nikon

      • Christopher J. May

        While I’ll agree about two of the models, there’s still nothing similar to the DL18-50 on the market. Nikon needs to make that one something special. If it’s good enough, it’ll generate enough buzz to support the other DL cameras. And while missing the holidays is definitely less than optimal, keep in mind that the second busiest camera shopping season is right before Father’s Day/Graduation. If Nikon can get things worked out, it’s not *complete* gloom and doom.

        I’m still curious why companies are doing more of the pre-announcement announcements like this. I understand that they want to generate interest in upcoming projects. However, all the initial positive buzz that was generated by the DL series is nearly inversed now as negative buzz piles on after every delay, etc. I think it would be far better to limit announcements to stuff that is ready to ship out the door. All positive buzz can then lead to realized sales. Heaven knows how many pre-orders for the DL series have been cancelled after each delay.

  • Given the specs of the RX100V, the DLs will probably look just like the KeyMission launch (too little, way too late).

    I gave up hoping Nikon comes up with something better than the competition in anything outside DSLRs/lenses. Sad.

    • Mike Gordon

      Except in this case, the price is less than the Sony. Getting less for less $.

      • I couldn’t care less about 100-200 $ when I’m buying a camera that I’ll use 2-3 years. Is Nikon now the cheap, low end brand? That’s making me sad…

        • Shutterbug

          $100-200? It’s almost half with a similar feature set, including some features the Sony doesn’t offer (and vise versa to be fair).

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          IF Nikon keeps price still in UK (£700’ish – £800) then it is about £500 – £700 cheaper than the Sony equivalents for some good features in it. What we don’t know is how good the Image and Video quality is…

        • Mike Gordon

          Nice math, $350 is not a small about of money. About right for the missing TINY pop up EVF, this place cracks me up.

          • Citizen Kang

            Focus is nearly instantaneous when it works right. When it doesn’t, there’s plenty of hunting and, oftentimes, fails altogether. In anything less than ideal situations, the focus is less than ideal as well. I’ve owned the V1 (2 of them), J4, V3, and J5 along with a good number of native lenses and FT-1 adapted glass so I speak from extensive experience.

        • To be fair, Nikon has never really done its brand justice in the compact space, while Sony has been kicking butt and taking names since the DSC-F505 (although calling that sucker compact is a stretch).

    • Shutterbug

      The DL’s cost a lot less (almost half for the most similar 24-85 version), yet offer many of the same features and the ability to manually focus. There is also an 18-50 lens option which remains an industry first unless someone does something very unexpected in the next 2 months.

      • Horshack

        Difference is the IV will fit in a jeans pocket (barely) whereas the DL will not. That puts the DL more in competition with something like an LX100, which sells for almost the same price as the DL.

        • Shutterbug

          Neither are pocketable unless you have enormous pants, or are OK with possibly damaging your camera or putting significant wear and tear on it. Both very easily fit into a jacket or purse, which I think is how most people would use them anyway to avoid damage or discomfort (an RX-100 forced into a front pocket makes it very uncomfortable to sit down with, for example – much like a large cell phone)

          • Mae West … ‘Is That a camera in Your Pocket, or Are You Just Glad to See Me?’

          • Spy Black

            .

          • Citizen Kang

            I’ve fit a Sony a6300 with the 50mm f/1.8 lens in the pockets of my cargo shorts.

        • pjpo

          Comparing the 2 DL and one Sony on camerasize. com, the DL’s aren’t enough thicker to be any deal breaker. If it is too tight for the DL, you’re being dangerous with the Sony. DL gets texture/grip, a hot shoe, Fn button, Exposure compensation button, touchscreen, and more.

          • Horshack

            The smallest of the DL’s (24-85mm) is 21% thicker than the RX100 IV, due mostly to the lens. No way that fits in a pocket when the RX100 IV barely fits as it is.

            • pjpo

              I have an RX100, and using the sizing comparison, I can see that it won’t matter. The DL18-50 is enough thicker, that yes, it will be an issue. I still wouldn’t toss any of these in a pocket. A belt pouch really works the best because once in any case, you aren’t fitting it in your pants without looking bad.

            • Mike Gordon

              21% = 9mm

            • Spy Black

              I occasionally throw my Panasonic GM5 with it’s 12-32mm kit lens in my jeans pocket. If that fits in my pocket, these cameras can fit.

            • Reputable Source

              You have some big pockets!

            • Spy Black

              Nope, standard jeans. People simply don’t realize you can do it.

            • Aldo

              Or people are using skinny jeans… myself included 😛

            • Reputable Source

              Interesting, guess my issue is I usually have a wallet, keys and cellphone in my pockets.

          • Nick T. Mere

            …and a 18-50.

        • Mike Gordon

          They are within millimeters, try the facts….

          http://camerasize.com/compare/#664,622

        • Davo

          Conversely jeans pocketable puts it in competition with smartphones. And in my pockets I already have my keys and phone (front) and wallet (rear). I won’t be putting a camera in my other rear pocket.

          • Spy Black

            Stick it in your crotch. Your dating life will improve.

            • Aldo

              I buy 2 shoe size bigger… It’s less inconvenient… pro tip

        • Steve

          I can fit any of the RX100 cams in a pocket. It’s a bit heavy, but it fits. No skinny jeans for me. :p

      • Narren Rot

        Once it hits the stores the rx100iv will have the same price… And still better specs…

    • Max

      I see Samsung also has a 360 cam.

  • FountainHead

    Too little, too late.

    • Shutterbug

      Can you link me to the other P&S cameras offering PDAF with tracking, high FPS, large buffers, 18-50 lens options, and a significantly lower price than the Sony RX V? I’m very interested.

      • TDL

        True, but you could easily find a Sony A6000 which is similar sized, has more resolution, bigger sensor (and likely better noise performance), 11fps, with the 16-50 pancake for ~$700, or refurbs for under 600 and used copies for 4-500.

        Don’t get me wrong, I think the DL’s will be nice pocketable cameras for things that aren’t demanding of DSLR quality, but need better than phone IQ. I’d consider one, if not for the fact that they don’t really bring anything new to the table that you can’t already get (or in some cases you can get better) for the same price or less.

        For $400-500? Sure. But as is I don’t see a reason to consider one unless you have major brand loyalty.

        • Mike Gordon

          “Sony A6K is similar sized” = maybe body only, you need a lens to shoot pictures!

          http://camerasize.com/compact/#664,656.88,ha,t

          This is the best one yet on this thread, hahahaha!

          • TDL

            *sigh* there’s always one in every thread…

            Mike…Mike, you with me? I know I’m typing, but try to read this reeeeeaaaallll slow so you don’t get lost again mkay? Phonetically if need be, or maybe even have someone else read it for you since you obviously missed a rather important part of the last couple posts.

            If you had read the first comment I made, you’d see that I referenced a pancake lens. Maybe you don’t shoot Sony or are unfamiliar with their lenses, but there are in fact no less than 3 last time I checked that are roughly the same size as the lens on the DL. in addition, Sigma has a pair that aren’t much bigger as well.

            So yeah, comparing the DL to an image with the 18-55 is well, rather silly to be honest.

            On that note…laugh all you want…I’m laughing at you too buddy 🙂

            • Mike Gordon

              If I want one focal length I will use my phone….

  • Glen

    Is the sensor stacked BSI like the RX 100 IV and V or non-stacked BSI like the II and III? The IV sensor had a noticeable bump in performance over the III.

    • Shutterbug

      It’s BSI (Like the III) but not stacked (Like the IV and V).

      The IV’s performance bump was in the speed department, not so much the IQ department. The benefits of a stacked sensor are almost entirely on the speed/video side.

      • pjpo

        That’s good to know. I haven’t seen that information anywhere. We can probably guess that the 2nd gen DL will get the stacked sensor and the 315 focus points instead of 105. I don’t even know why the DL didn’t keep the J5’s 171 AF points.

  • RC Jenkins

    I really like the design of the 2 wider angle DL’s, but I wish they made them interchangeable lens / 1-mount.

    These seem like great, useful compact cameras and lenses, but I can’t justify limiting focal length ranges in such a pricey package. Make either of these lenses part of the kit–which I think should have been possible. Same sensor size, and looks like same flange distance.

    I think Nikon came close with the J5, but it’s still a little thick, and they crippled some features, like the ability to add longer F-mount telephoto lenses. The Nikon 1 lenses also seem physically larger than necessary, and larger when compared to these–that DL 24-85 equivalent is thin!

    Hopefully Nikon releases a “DL-1” or something–where the DL becomes an interchangeable lens Nikon 1 mount mirrorless. 🙂

    • Athanasius Kirchner

      Yes, except it becomes pointless, as those lenses can only be small because they’re fixed. To make them 1-series compatible would require an extensive redesign, and they’d end up much larger and fatter.

      • RC Jenkins

        I hear what you’re saying, but I’m just saying that there aren’t a lot of good lens options on the Nikon 1 series at all–for example, there is no fast (<F2.8), normal (~24-70) zoom.

        And I'm sure Nikon can create one that doesn't have to be huge or that will defeat the purpose of a compact mirrorless body.

        Even if you took the DL24-85 lens and assumed it extends into the body to just above the sensor, that's not too bad–that adds like half an inch. I'm sure there will be some complications with adding the mount itself, but I'm sure a smart designer could figure out a way to have it carried compact and not "turn on" until a user manually extends the barrel.

        And even if not, I don't think there are too many physical constraints here–a smart designer should be able to find some way to make some nice yet compact lenses.

        As an example, I'm holding a Nikon 1 18.5mm F1.8 right now. There's only a tiny, tiny, bit of glass, it feels completely hollow, and it seems like they kept it thick because that was the mount size. This thing is about a 75% scale model of my 35mm F1.8. And this is built for a sensor thats 2.7x smaller than a full frame. In contrast, there is an excellent 32mm F1.2 that seems like they really did try to maximize the size efficiency for.

        But to me, it seems like they just haven't made an effort to offer high quality, compact lenses for the 1 series yet, with the exception of the 32mm F1.2. I think that's the key here.

      • RC Jenkins

        Agreed that they’d need an extensive redesign, and that they’d up up larger and fatter, but I think a smart designer could do it without making them *too* large and fat. Flange distance seems identical as does sensor size, so I’d assume the lenses in these DL’s are recessed into the body when closed. But there’s only about half an inch between the front of the body and the sensor.

        I think a smart Nikon designer should be able to get around this–for example, making a Nikon 1 lens that can recess when mounted and needs to be manually rotated out to turn on or something. Not the most elegant solution, but functional and useful.

        Even if not this exact lens, all I’m asking for is Nikon to put some resources toward designing faster and less amateur Nikon 1 lenses. Restrict the range or aperture a bit and release some faster zooms with a focus on size. They’ve got some some great primes for the N1’s, but no fast zooms today–and no developments on the N1 system in quite some time.

        • Athanasius Kirchner

          I think Nikon already missed that boat, sadly. I think it’s a bit tragic that Nikon hamstrung the 1 system so badly, and so purposefully. If Ricoh had originally chosen 1″ for their Q series, we’d at least have an alternative, and who knows, maybe two more mature ultra compact systems, instead of two discontinued failures.

          • RC Jenkins

            I hear you and totally agree. Total shame. They do have a handful of advantages (eg. potential size vs m43), but I think I’m being overly optimistic. I can still dream…hopefully 2017! 🙂

    • Andrew

      If you want an interchangeable lens camera that is compact and impressively capable, then pick up the new Nikon D3400. The DL series is what it is, and I may even consider picking up two of the three cameras.

      I like Nikon’s new concept of a fixed lens camera that is affordable and seems of exceptional quality. Nikon tested the waters with the successful though overpriced Nikon Coolpix A, and the DL seems to be a much more appealing camera, especially if they improve the high ISO performance of their 1-inch sensor above that of the Nikon 1.

      • RC Jenkins

        I don’t plan on putting a D3300 and a DX lens in my pocket, which is why I like these Nikon 1’s–especially the J series. The J’s are about the size of a fat wallet, and the F1.8 50mm equivalent takes up about as much room as a keychain. They’re about the max size I’d consider to be truley pocketable…even the V series are too big.

        The D3400 is big enough where I won’t see a noticeable difference in carrying my D7000 or D750 instead. I’d still be “actively” carrying a backpack or camera in my hand or slung over my shoulder all day. And unfortunately, f-mount dslrs will never be anywhere close to as thin as nikon 1’s due to physical constraints like flange distance and room for the mirror.

        I’d just like to see more Nikon 1 lens selection, with the lenses coming in smaller than m43 equivalents. And I’m sure some smart engineers could do it–the DL’s have the same sensor & flange distance requirements as a Nikon 1.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ddcf5e63b8680c5cae54f98242dd040bd4f10f145ec87e0cb2a9c81301b54b83.jpg

        • RC Jenkins

          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/93c70d1f4bf7371570d262c5a8ae1c6ad610573c9d15b3f274b3e6d9d0f86fbf.jpg

          Just to put things in perspective…

          I don’t think comparing the D3400 (~same dimensions as the D3300) to the Nikon 1’s is really an apples to apples comparison. I think they’ve got completely different use cases.

          • Andrew

            Agreed 🙂

        • RC Jenkins

          I should have said “F-mount dslr’s OR FULL FRAME MIRRORLESS won’t be as thin…”

          One key benefit of mirrorless is the compact size–and this is where Nikon has a natural edge due to the sensor size of Nikon 1. Even if Nikon makes a full-frame mirrorless, they’d have the issue of inherent flange distance constraints provided by the F mount. Legacy F mount lenses are designed to “focus” at a certain distance from the mount point (almost 2 inches), which won’t change. This means that camera bodies, whether they’re mirrorless or slr can never be thinner than this. 2″ thick is already in the realm of DSLR’s, assuming one takes out the grip.

          I’d prefer they did so with either a “telescoping mount” to cover compact size while carrying or a new mount or with a new mount. The new mirrorless mount so far has been the Nikon 1, which is great for its compact size, but Nikon needs to really expand options, price, and size down since they’re using far less glass, have a smaller flange distance, and have a more advanced mount than the aging legacy F mount.

          I’d strongly prefer they don’t go with a new full frame mount, which would render all current lenses obsolete.

  • Jarret O’Shea

    If they’re really going to release the exact product they were supposed to release in March, they’re going to need to drop the price. No reason to spend ~$1000 on one of the DLs + viewfinder when the RX100 V is $1000 and has better specs–unless you reeeeeally want that 18mm equivalent.

    • Mike Gordon

      The 24-85, closest to the Sony, is $650… The 18-50 still stands alone in the market.

      • Jarret O’Shea

        $650, but the viewfinder is what, $200, $250? That’s why I specified +viewfinder, the added cost takes it very close.

        • Shutterbug

          Yes but not everyone wants a viewfinder. Having the option not to pay for it is (to many) preferable. Sony’s implementation is indeed very slick with the pop-up EVF, but many people do not use the EVF and it’s nice to not have to pay for it if you don’t want to. Especially on the 18-50, an EVF is of limited use.

          • Jarret O’Shea

            I think “many people don’t use the viewfinder” because most consumer cameras don’t have them. Otherwise, in any sort of bright light, they’d use them because LCDs are nigh useless. Now, not willing to pay the $200 or $250 (don’t remember) that nikon wants…yeah, I can see that. In fact you’ve made me realize you’re right about the body, $650 is fine. I guess my main problem is the viewfinder price, which seems exorbitant.

            • Shutterbug

              Indeed the VF price seems high, I agree. I guess the difference is Sony forces you to pay for it, but integrates it more nicely and Nikon gives you the option, but it’s an add-on.

          • Spy Black

            “Having the option not to pay for it is (to many) preferable.”

            Yes, an optional viewfinder is preferable, so you can lose it.

            • Thom Hogan

              You’re not going to lose it. The way Nikon made the EVF it’s just awkward and ungainly.

          • Thom Hogan

            From a ‘solves problem’ standpoint, the RX100 and the DLs are in a slightly different league, I think. And that means either there’s room for both, or one made a mistake.

            The RX100 is the only shirt pocketable compact I know of with that level of quality. And yes, it fits in my shirt pockets (though I’m a big man and wear big shirts ;~).

            Once you get to something bigger than that–e.g. the LX100 I’ve been using–you’re either going to need a big pocket (e.g. jacket pocket), a small bag, or a strap. And I’d argue that once we get to that, you open up a whole host of extremely competent cameras that have better IQ than you can expect from 1″.

            So to me, this market gets down to “what did they do to solve the carry problem.” Nikon? They have that ugly, big, awkward optional EVF if you want to frame other than on the LCD. I don’t care what the price of that EVF is, it’s design alone disqualifies the two bottom DLs if you need an EVF. There are just too many really good small mirrorless cameras with bigger sensors that aren’t as awkward. Some of them with APS sensors.

            I really worry that Nikon is getting part of the problems solved, but not all of the problems. The problems the latest Nikon 1 had were slow zooms, awkward or no EVF, consumer-leaning controls, and in some cases (e.g. V3) price. Okay, we got fast zooms, we got prosumer-leaning controls, but the EVF is still not solved.

            Meanwhile their competitor solved fast zoom and EVF, but not consumer-leaning controls.

        • Mike Gordon

          Have you ever used that tiny pop-up EFV? It is a POS.

          • Spy Black

            When you can’t see you rear screen in bright sunlight, the EVF won’t seem like such a POS.

            • zzzxtreme

              I do use my evf even with v1’s 10mm lens.

            • Mike Gordon

              Not sure where this myth comes from.

              I cannot think of a single time the sun was so bright I could not use the LCD to frame a shot. This goes back to my Fuji FinePix 1400 back in 2001… Also guess this means nobody can take a picture with a camera phone in the sun either. Geesh, this is a dumb argument.

            • Spy Black

              My Fuji E900, Canon S110, Nikon J4, and Panasonic GM5 immediately come to mind.

              You must live in a very dark part of the universe…

          • Thom Hogan

            You’re talking about the RX100? I have only one problem with that EVF: pushing it down turns off the camera. That should be an option, not a commitment.

            • Mike Gordon

              Yup

        • zzzxtreme

          Viewfinder is listed for $380 canadian

    • Shutterbug

      The DL’s aren’t anywhere near $1000 ( the one that competes with the Sony RX 100’s is almost half the price, with a greater zoom range), and nobody else makes an 18-50 option. The DL’s also allow manual zoom, which is a big deal for some people. The lack of a built-in EVF is indeed a concern for some, depending on preference. They will still be competitive, since Nikon and Sony seem to be the only ones interested in ultra-high spec P&S cameras. Autofocus capability, FPS, buffer, and general responsiveness have always been major drawbacks in P&S cameras until now.

      • manattan

        Can you post a link to the manual zoom reference? That is interesting, but the pages on B&H only give information about a powered zoom. Thanks

  • D700s

    I guess my patience paid off. I’m still interested in the 24-85. It’s never too late. This will be a great carry everywhere camera.

    • Horshack

      The problem is you have to carry the camera everywhere…wont fit in a pants pocket like its competition.

      • Shutterbug

        The RX 100 series isn’t pants pocketable unless you have enormous pockets, and all of them will fit in a jacket/purse easily. I know for a fact I don’t have one pair of pants that fits the RX 100 without potentially damaging force, and I am a normal sized person. On top of that, pulling the camera in/out of a tight pocket introduces all kinds of other issues.

        • Horshack

          I’ve owned each of the four RX100 models and all have fit into my skinny jeans pockets without any damage – and I’m of slight build. V1 fit with a comfortable margin but things got tighter with subsequent versions…but they still fit.

          • Shutterbug

            Each to their own I guess. I’ve owned the II, III and IV, and neither fit into my pants pocket without force that I would consider potentially damaging or abusive to the camera. Walking and sitting down becomes uncomfortable as well. My colleagues with various versions of the RX 100 series all feel the same way, and carry it in a jacket or small separate case. I’m glad it works for you, I don’t mean to undermine that, but it is certainly not a pocketable camera in a broad sense.

          • RC Jenkins

            BTW, this pocket thing is why I’m avoiding buying this, even though I really like these cameras.

            My take is that if they can release that lens as a Nikon 1 mount, I’d be happy. The camera body in 1 pocket, the lens in the other.

            I’m just hoping they can & will release one of these or something similar at some point…

          • D700s

            Don’t plan on carrying it in my pants pocket. Keep it in the car, wife purse, jacket pocket, just want a camera handy whenever I’m out. This looks like it provides decent IQ and sure beats my iPhone. I’m not looking for a replacement for my dslr like so many seem to be. Not what this is for. Why complain about what Nikon is doing. People complaining can just buy the competition’s product. Wow, all the hate.

          • Mike Gordon

            I have a solution so you can handle that 9mm difference in your “skinny jeans” Drink one less beer next week, you will have room!

        • Max

          I can’t put a D5500 with 35G in my pants pockets. Wish I could… This I can make fit! 😀

  • Horshack

    Just in time for Christmas…

    • RC Jenkins

      …preorders. The preorder certificate is thin enough to fit in stockings 🙂

      • ZoetMB

        That’s now how people shop for the holidays. With pro level equipment, you might be able to get away with shipping after the holidays, although even then, in an upper-income household with a family members wants to buy a really great gift for another family member — they’re not going to bother if it’s not in stock, they’ll just get something different. But with consumer equipment? It’s shockingly incompetent.

        Chances are they’re built in time, but the container ship can take weeks to travel from Asia to the U.S. They should have done what Apple does and airlift the first shipments.

        So just after everyone has spent all their money on the holidays, they’re going to release. Brilliant. Then after the close of the fiscal, Nikon will report, “sales were down due to soft market conditions.” No, sales are down because you can’t get your product into the channels on time. (And that assumes that it winds up being a good product.)

    • DLynch

      A blessing in disguise.

    • Mr_Miyagi

      You mean, just in time for Chinese New Year (2017 January 28). LOL.

  • DLynch

    Wow. Just like the Nikon 1’s – missed the boat again Nikon.

  • Boris Cheung

    Will Nikon be idle in Xmas?

    • Shutterbug

      Probably not if you want a 70-200 VR III or 19mm T/S lens 🙂

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        this could be a good lens but price likely to be $3000 / £2500

        • Shutterbug

          Yeah I could see $2999 USD, especially if the increase the filter size to 82mm like they did on the new 24-70. If they use FL elements and make it lighter though, it could be worth the price.

    • RC Jenkins

      I don’t think that’s necessarily bad. I think these companies spend way too much time trying to come out with the latest and greatest gimmicks just for every Christmas season every year. Good to a point for business, but it can be detrimental for product quality after a while. And then selection and support gets cluttered.

      People are so used to this now, that purchasing a camera is a slow, long, drawn out affair, where people know the tech will be inevitably rendered obsolete soon after.

      Note: I’m not saying these DL’s are gimmicky–these are super practical cameras. I’m just saying that in general, I don’t need Nikon to target a bunch of new products just for Christmas every year.

      “Idle” is fine, as long as they’re producing quality equipment that sells year round.

      Examples: Perfect the Nikon 1 bodies; release that 24-85 as a Nikon 1 lens any time, ASAP.

      But don’t release another DL right before Christmas 2017 that adds 1-2 missing features and a slightly better sensor just to avoid being “idle” over Christmas.

    • Spy Black

      No, you can buy a D3400…

    • Thom Hogan

      No.

  • Glen

    I honestly was not expecting as much of a bump either from the III to the IV and now I am wondering if it has something to do with Sony improving its RAW implementation. If the 18-50 and 24-85 DLs can give us roughly equivalent f/4 – f/5.6 full frame performance I think we will have a winner.

    • Shutterbug

      One thing Nikon has always done better than Sony, at least in the DSLR world, is image quality with the same sensor – hopefully that carries over t the 1″ sensors as well 🙂

    • BVS

      I thought 1″ was roughly three stops weaker than FF, at least in terms of noise.

      • Glen

        But the lens is f/1.8 – f/2.8 and we will get some improvement with this sensor vs non-BSI full frame sensors. If you multiply f/1.8-f/2.8 by the 2.7 crop factor you end up with f/4.6-7.6. The BSI should help give us a bit more than that in terms of IQ vs the full frame equivalent.

        • BVS

          When I compare RX100 III and IV with D750 on DPReview’s low light scene comparison they appear about 2.5 stops worse (give or take) at ISO1600 to my eyes. D750 is slightly worse at 12800, but better at 6400 at full resolution. Size matched, the difference appears closer to 3 stops to me.

          Also, there appears to be little if any difference between RX100 IV and the original RX100, at least in terms of noise, so I’m not sure how much benefit to expect from BSI. Of course, we can always hope for some Nikon special sauce. 🙂

  • Syco

    Need to bin the DL idea – Sony has them beat.

    They need to focus on what they do well rather then garbage like keymission…

    • Shutterbug

      Can you please link me to Sony’s RX 100 featuring an 18-50 and the ability to manually zoom? I would order one today.

      • Fly Moon

        ” ability to manually zoom”
        I had the first RX100 and I really hated the non-manual zoom. I sold it and I never looked back.

        • Shutterbug

          Yeah it is a surprisingly nice feature to be able to manually zoom, it makes using the camera a much nicer experience in my opinion. The DL will also let you lock the zoom at any focal length, that the camera remembers when you turn it on, so you can treat it like a camera with 6 primes if you choose.

          • Athanasius Kirchner

            The Panasonic LX100 does that same trick, it’s old hat by now.
            And now that I think about it, my RX10 also had a step-zoom function (but manual zoom was much superior to any of these pocket cameras, anyway).

          • Davo

            Its surprising what a difference a manual zoom makes. I, too dislike the power zoom except doing the occasional video but I’m predominantly a stills shooter anyways.
            But I think part of the extra lens bulk has to do with this manual zoom mechanism, a trade off I’m happy to accept.

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Not yet – at the moment they’re beat Sony to price (£700 vs £1199 Sony RxV) but Sony’s models (even previous models) have been out for years with proven Video and Image Quality. Nikon is still vapour wear until they come out and big Q’s will be lens, Still and Video quality.

    • Fly Moon

      “garbage like keymission”

      Why? Because you don’t need one?

    • By that logic Google should have never brought out Android because “Apple has them beat”.

  • That is a significant push off for such a small camera. I wonder what is causing this delay.

    • Glen

      Sensor availability is the most likely culprit.

      • I see what your saying. They have empty camera bodies floating about waiting for a sensor to come through and have it packaged for shipping by January. I think it is more than that.

        • RC Jenkins

          Yeah. I think it also has to do with just the sheer number and variety of cameras, bodies, and lenses they have out today. Each takes resources away from the others and requires exponentially more support. I think this was probably an additional contributing factor.

          ie. I think Nikon is underestimating effort and resources required to design, build, and test equipment when they announce products & release dates..

          • Bingo! Can’t stand when companies do this. Great that the marketing campaign has rolled out but this is the internet and some people hinge on this stuff. They should have waited as nobody wants to hear about delays. While completely agreeing with your last statement!

        • August Personage

          There have been hints that the delays were due also due to issues with Snapbridge/possibly Expeed.

      • Nobody Knows

        There was talk of problems with the , who knows for sure but I think that they may have missed the boat

      • Thom Hogan

        No. The delay was caused by the ASIC/LSI chips according to sources. Now it very well may be that that delay led to further delay due to sensor availability, but I don’t really buy that unless the DLs are using an entirely new sensor.

  • Tieu Ngao

    Since it’s late and there’s more competition now, I’d suggest that Nikon should change the price to $600, $700, and $800 for 3 models of DL cameras. The optional view finder should be priced at $100.
    A good strategy for Nikon now is to gain more market share, not to satisfy the management’s greed.

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      4 years a bit late with nikon competitors having traction and on to multiple models. Big iff’s is how good is the lens, image quality, video quality and I really hope the QC is better than it has been with Nikon in the past.

    • zzzxtreme

      Maybe a firesale like the v1? Lol

  • novak miler

    Those are some high prices….

    • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

      Not as high as Sony newer releases but the big iffs is how good is the quality of the images, videos compared to Competitors

      • novak miler

        Yeah. They are using the same sensors right? I’m very keen to see iq of these an d the new sony

        • Shutterbug

          Should be the same sensor as the RX 100 III (and J5), plus whatever Nikon has done to it. Historically, Nikon has always done a better job with Sony sensors than Sony themselves, so hopefully that carries over to the 1″.

          • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

            Looking forward to it £200 cheaper @moment than Sony Rx100 MK 4 and £400 cheaper than the MK 5 version.

        • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

          True but is it worth £200 (MK 4) and £400 over the DL for a pocket camera ?. If image quality is on par with RX100 I and 3 then I’d be happy to pay for the price.

  • DLynch

    Announced in Feb 2016 shipping in Jan 2017, no thanks.

    • Alda Smite

      that + price in crease…. and still someone says, yes thanks (facepalm)

  • pjpo

    People are complaining about the lack of touchscreen on the RX100V, or wish it were a little longer than 70mm. I’m over here like, DL24-85 for less money. If the RX10 vs DL24-600 is a comparison, the Sony will offer better video modes but Nikon plenty of other features for less money. And Sony still won’t have the 18-50 range.

  • Eric Calabros

    so they gonna say this at CES: remember what we released in last year show? Now we are shipping that. cool, right?

  • Max

    exactly

  • TDL

    Having used the 16-50mm on two bodies now, I can say that it’s not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. And t-stop wise it’s a 5.2, this equivalent nonsense is just hogwash. Besides, I don’t think the avg potential DL buyer is expecting Otus quality, or shooting major marketing campaigns with it. The avg DSLR buyer sticks with the 18-55 kit lens, and for them that’s good enough. I’m betting they’ll think the same of the DL or Sony in this case. The 16-50mm is in my experience far better than those (Canon or Nikon) with the benefit of being small/pocketable. Generally speaking if you’re looking into “equivalents” and t-stops, and shooting charts then you’re probably buying some overpriced German glass and well…shooting charts.

    The sensor is bigger, and generally speaking you’re going to get better IQ from that. “Poor AF performance”? Have you ever used an A6000? I have, and I’d definitely disagree with that assessment. It’s far far better than most bodies from what I’ve seen. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone say that of the A6000. AF-wise I’d bet my entire kit that the Sony would outperform the DL any day of the week. Is it the best camera available? No. Probably not even the best mirrorless body by far. But if you had the choice of the Sony or the DL (any of the DLs in fact) I couldn’t think of a reason why (other than 4k) you’d choose the Nikon.

    4k I have to give you though, IF that’s important to you. I only know one person with a 4k monitor, and they’re not my target market so shooting 4k doesn’t have much appeal to me. In fact, video as a whole isn’t important to me (but I admit I’m probably the last holdout). That being said, on benefit (or downside of you’re a Sony fan) is that Sony releases new bodies rather quickly, rendering the old model “obsolete”; just look at the A6300 and the new A6500. I’m sure 6300’s will be the same price as the DL soon enough.

    Macro? Buy an SLR and dedicated macro lens. If you’re going to use that as a valid point for the Nikon being better, then you have to admit the Tokina 100mm and a D3200 can be had for much less and give far better results than either the DL or Sony. Or you could just…buy a macro lens for the Sony (another benefit of ILC’s IMO)

    • Eric Duminil

      Good points.
      I think one of the advantages of 4k video is about applying effects, rotation, crop or perspective correction and still have more than enough for HD.

      • TDL

        That’s a good point. Admittedly I know VERY LITTLE about video or the benefits of various features related to it, so my opinion only relates to my personal experiences doing solely photography. If video is your thing, then perhaps the DL is a better choice. Wouldn’t know or be able to make an informed suggestion in that case to be honest.

        Hypothetically speaking though, if the A6300 drops to the same price either refurb or even slightly less on the used market; do you think that would be a better choice as an overall pocketable cam vs the DL (just on paper, since we don’t really have enough hands on stuff with the DLs at the moment)

        • Eric Duminil

          I’m really partial on this question : I own and love a fixed lens big sensor compact (fuji x100s), and I hate Sony because of their lack of respect for their customers. What’s the point of having the possibility to change lenses if the manufacturer insn’t interested in producing any?
          So I’d definitely go for the DL, but not just based on technical bullet points.

  • whisky

    that new BREXIT pricing is unfortunate. =:-/

  • Phil

    Nikon delays the three DL cameras with the 1″ sensor. Now Sony announces the new 1″ sensor (for RX100) which gains 315 phase-detection AF points covering 65% of the frame. Nikon now announces shipping date for the 3 DL cameras.

    • Which is bullshit, because it means whatever RX comes out from now on is going to be ahead of whatever 1 inch sensor Nikon gets – sony is iterating so fast I feel like I won’t get a RX100 V quality sensor for a couple of generations, whether that new LSI chip can do anything remains to be seen however current gen RX100 1″ chips are ahead of the J5, which I believe has a 2013-2014 Sony BSI chip in it.
      from the noise comparisons I’ve seen people put up there certainly is a huge difference in noise quality from J4 – J5, and if Nikon can catch up and put a fresh sensor in there I won’t be so pissed off at how well executed that RX100 is. I can’t as efficiently use an RX100 because of all the F, CX, and C mount glass I have. Shooting a skier from 1.8 miles away with the J4 attached to a 300mm lens gives me 810mm that will fit in a small pack and give a view like a helicopter overhead the skier, because I’m on the opposite side of a valley. And it’s usually 20 degrees F or below so atmospheric distortion isn’t a factor. Then I can pocket the J4 with the 10mm on it, use the D810 for a bit, then put it away and go down the valley and mountain – if I want to take shots on the fly I have a good pocket camera that shoots decent slow motion and takes crazy bursts – vital when you want the skier hitting a lip to be in perfect form, high fps + sports = love and devotion to the system. Don’t even get me started on the ability to take a full resolution sensor dump while shooting video, something that has been so useful it’s resulted in several front page photos in one season.
      If Nikon can improve on this tool and make it even more usable, professional even, it could be an incredible winner. But I worry Nikon doesn’t have the commitment to go there, and so I await CP+ with dread, not excitement.

  • snype719

    Too little, too late Nikon. Try again sometime.

    • Fly Moon

      “Try again sometime”

      They ARE trying again 🙂

      • Thom Hogan

        I think you mean “they are still trying.” ;~)

  • manattan

    Thanks for the link. Reading through that article I think unfortunately those are just markings for the powered zoom to automatically be turned to. One of the best features of Nikon’s old 1 series was truly manually-turned zooms (e.g. traditional DSLR style). It is much slower to rack a powered zoom than a manual zoom. If Nikon had made a truly manual zoom that would have been a killer feature IMHO.

    • Shutterbug

      The stepped zoom points are set manually, for sure. Whether or not you can freely move it around as you would a DSLR lens, I am not 100% sure.

  • Shutterbug

    So far not one of these people saying ” too little too late” have been able to link me to Sony’s 18-50mm RX100 or another RX100-like P&S with phase detection AF, high FPS, large buffer, and 4K for $649. I can’t seem to find them….

    Indeed, the delay was unfortunate, but I don’t see anyone else bringing out the same features by January, and especially not at $649-849.

    • DLynch

      Just the fact that they “may” be released almost a year after being announced makes the technology dated never mind the price.

    • Spy Black

      The 18-50 is overpriced.

    • Thom Hogan

      You’re making assumptions about focus, buffer, and video performance without knowing what the eventual camera will actually do. You’re also making assumptions that no one else will be coming out with a 1″ sensor product in early 2017 that matches your original assumptions.

      At the moment the RX100V is the only camera that has carefully observed performance by third parties (as opposed to promised by marketing) in this category, and it’s not available yet ;~).

      Had Nikon delivered when originally planned (June 2016), the DLs would have made a splash, regardless of whether their performance fully lived up to expectations on focus and buffer. Now, it’s unknown what impact they’ll have. Indeed, the whole KeyMission thing is indicative of the problem Nikon might have: finally ship into competitors moves.

      All this just makes Nikon’s problems tougher. They’re losing market share in every category at the moment (compact, mirrorless, DSLR). They’ve had quality control issues that have many Nikon faithful waiting after launch. They’re launching into established categories (action, 1″ carry-everywhere, and we all hope eventually a real mirrorless system). Simply put, to restore the “technology leader” kind of label the brand used to have, they’re going to have to do better. Far better.

  • Athanasius Kirchner

    At this point Nikon might as well only release the DL 18-50 and scrap the other two. The 24-85 will appear in a crowded market, and now doesn’t even appear in first place regarding AF and burst speed (I’m quite sure that the RX100V will be at least as capable, if not better), and has no other outstanding features. The 24-500 seems now laughable in the face of the FZ2000 and RX10III, not to mention the updated models that Sony shall release next year with much improved AF.

    Nikon really screwed this one up, but the 18-50 is still a unique idea that I want, nay, desperately NEED to succed. I hate mirrorless UWA lenses, as most are either slow, crappy or huge, and universally overpriced. A pocket cam with the DL’s specs would serve my purposes far better.

    • Shutterbug

      Nikon’s 24-85 is almost half the price of the Sony, with similar AF/burst (though not quite as impressive). Not everyone wants to pay for that viewfinder. I know for me personally, I will spend $650 on a P&S but not $1000 – that is a huge difference, especially when I am getting most of the same key features (PDAF, responsiveness, good lens, 4K, etc).

      • Athanasius Kirchner

        Sure, but I think you’re forgetting the LX10, the LX100, the G5X, the G7XII, all the other RX100’s… it’s not a very welcoming segment right now, and while the proposition of the 24-85 will make sense for a few, most people either buy on specs or price, both fronts on which the camera loses, especially as it still isn’t near release and there aren’t reviews.

        • Shutterbug

          But not one of those cameras you listed has PDAF, high FPS with reliable tracking between frames, and deep buffer all in one package. That is what the RX100 V and DL offer that nobody else does, and it’s not simply a ‘nice to have’ but quite a huge difference when you can reliably shoot action with a P&S, or have DSLR-like responsiveness and shot-to-shot time (something P&S cameras always seem to struggle with).

          Sure, not everyone will even know enough to recognize those benefits, but then they probably aren’t the target market either.

          If it’s true that people are simply buying on specs, the Sony and DL will be the easy choices since nobody else is making anything like it. The DL offers an 18-50 and the RX100 offers a pop up viewfinder, both of which nobody else has.

          • Athanasius Kirchner

            The LX10 has DFD, it’s not quite same, but it’s proven to be competitive. It also has all the powerful 4K photo modes, plus a decent buffer and burst. And, it comes at almost the same price as the 24-85, but is a more capable video machine.
            As I said, I think the 24-85 will make sense, from a price/performance standpoint, to a sliver of the market. Some will choose it simply because it says ‘Nikon’, other would probably never buy it for the same reason.
            But my point here is, had this camera been released after CP+, it would’ve had a sizable chunk of the market for itself.
            Now? Now it’ll become just one more face in the crowd, if and when it appears. And that crowd will only become larger and more capable next year.

          • Athanasius Kirchner

            BTW, I also said that I fervently desire a 18-50, that’s kind of a dream camera for me, and Nikon MUST release it now, or no one will ever make another UWA compact for fear of the curse x_x

          • Mike Gunter

            Just a second.

            “That is what the RX100 V and DL offer that nobody else does…”

            The DL’s, at this moment are imaginary, and need to be treated as such.

            There’s no reliabilty as you’ve asserted.

            After release, review and testing by trusted critics we’ll have an idea how much the cameras deliver.

            Now, they are just empty promises.

          • Thom Hogan

            Again, what’s the design goal here? What problem is trying to be solved? Putting high FPS and reliable focus tracking into a camera you hold at arms’ length to compose on an LCD is a very big dissonance. You’re only going to use those performance features if you can actually follow a subject well, and at-eye shooting is just far better at that then at-arms-length shooting.

      • Davidvictormeldrew Idontbeliev

        So is the 24-500 although pricer than the Fz1000 – main q will be what will these cameras be like when they’re out.

      • Thom Hogan

        Having been a user of this category of product for some time, I’ll say this: you’ll want the EVF. You’d pick an identical camera with a built-in EVF every time, too, if the price equaled out (built-in versus optional).

        I say this all the time: design is about solving user problems. Leaving off the EVF–or making it a big wart on top that’s awkward–is not solving one of the bigger prosumer user problems, and weren’t the DLs supposedly targeted towards DSLR users who wanted a small camera to carry everywhere? ;~)

    • Thom Hogan

      No. Nikon should release all three DLs, and I’d argue add a fourth and maybe fifth model.

      But…they’re coming in weaker to this market than they expected due to the delay. They’re going to need to up their marketing game to establish themselves as being the go-to provider in this category. And that terrible optional EVF has got to go, soon.

      I’m worried that Nikon is trying to combine technology moves with cost cutting moves (the Design to Cost thing executives are now talking about). That’s not what Sony is doing. It’s not what Fujifilm is doing. It’s not what Olympus/Panasonic are doing. So there’s a risk that Nikon takes themselves out of a leadership position and into a follower position, which is not good.

    • Testoviron

      Why 24-500 seems laughable? What is really laughable is that FZ2000 will crop the sensor x1.7 while recording 4K, which eliminates this camera for me. Nikon DL24-500 might be comparable to Sony RX10 III and it’s going to cost half of Sony’s price. If they don’t screw up anything in 24-500, it may be definately the best deal from these 3 cameras.

      • Athanasius Kirchner

        We don’t know if the Nikon will crop for 4K, do we? Also, for some users (like me) the additional crop is more than welcome – I’d use the FZ2000 for wildlife video. And the stabilizer in the Panasonic is excellent. The DL’s might be, but we don’t know.
        As to the comparison with the RX10III, no way. Simply no way – the longer, faster lens more than makes up for the slower AF, and remember, come next update the RX10IV will do everything the DL or FZ can, and much more. Also, there’s the Canon G3X, going for quite reasonable prices now, which is more compact and has a longer lens.
        The market is crowded, and Nikon’s making an embarassment out of themselves by coming in so late.

        • Testoviron

          We don’t know many things about the camera, so you can’t compare it to Sony or Panny at the moment. Higher equivalent focal lengths are the only advantage of the sensor crop (for me it’s an advantage too), but don’t forget that equivalent aperture value also increases and the general quality is lower. Why would you buy a bridge camera with 1″ sensor if it uses something around 1/2″ unless you record only 1080p? Also, how can you judge the Lumix stabilizer if the camera is not available yet? Stabilizer in FZ1000 and FZ300 was crappy – while shooting from tripod on bigger zoom you could notice a significant jelly effect (it also appeared in some Lumix lenses, so they definately have problem with that). The fact that the stabilizer is improved doesn’t mean that this particular effect will be eliminated.
          By now the only advantage of RX10 III over DL24-500 that you can be sure of, is the lens speed – but it shouldn’t be a game changer for you if you don’t mind the sensor crop in FZ2000.
          The market of 4K bridge-cameras is definately NOT crowded. By now there are only Panasonic and Sony and both are not perfect. RX10 III is already unreasonably expensive, so we can only imagine what the price of mk IV will be.

  • DLynch

    I can’t wait to see if they dig themselves a bigger hole next year with the Nikon 1 line. A J6 or a V4 would really be laughable at this stage of the game.

    • Spy Black

      A V4 won’t be laughable if they release a truly professional model on the par with the D5/D500. Otherwise I agree. A J6 will be laughable if it doesn’t have an EVF.

      • DLynch

        Professional and 1″ sensor don’t belong in the same sentence. My opinion.

        • Spy Black
          • DLynch

            OK but it feels good!

        • Thom Hogan

          No. I can see professional and 1″ together. But the problem is that the V3 is already at the highest price point where that would really work, and Nikon still has much to fix to make a V4 truly professional. I just don’t see Nikon able to hit the target.

          • DLynch

            Thom, I’ve seen your appreciation of the N1 system all over the net and respect your opinion even though we differ. Our levels of IQ acceptability levels differ. Price aside I am still not sure a 1″ sensor will meet my needs anytime in the near future. I’d love to see technology improve to this level as the N1 system size really is a pleasure to work with when I had it. Good Luck

            • Thom Hogan

              I believe I’ve been consistent in saying that 1″ is a “good light” solution only. But a lot of people only shoot in good light.

            • whisky

              or need a compact back-up camera which fits their system.

            • whisky

              if IQ is your primary issue, look for the biggest sensor system you can afford.

              if size, portability, versatility, and high performance on a “good enough” sensor is the solution to your problems — the N1’s are extremely competitive.

              horses for courses.

          • DLynch

            One question Thom, It looked to me as if the DL camera group was out to replace the N1 line. Do you think this is a work in progress?

            • Thom Hogan

              I’ve said since the beginning of the DL announcement that I believe that DL means the end of CX (Nikon 1). I just don’t see how Nikon manages to finesse an ILC with the same specs against the DLs because the lenses on the DLs are arguably better (spec-wise, we don’t know optically).

              Nikon might limp along with a J6 to appease the CX faithful and squeeze a last tithe from them, but Nikon just has a fundamental problem now that Canon, Fujifilm, and Sony are doing highly competent APS-sensor mirrorless in relatively compact bodies. You can’t give up two stops at the sensor with slow lenses and compete. The DLs are cheaper than any likely f/1.8-2.8 CX lens of the same spec would be, so…

            • Eric Calabros

              They are selling D3200 with kit for only $400, while J5 and kit, 18 months after release, is still $500! I don’t know what they are thinking.

            • Thom Hogan

              This is one of the things that the downturn did to Nikon. Remember, I wrote that they powered down the straightaway knowing there was a hairpin turn at the end. I started using that metaphor when there was still time to brake.

              I suspect, but can’t prove, that Nikon went to the multiple generation of cameras available simultaneously because of sensor and other parts commitments they made. To get costs down, they committed high. When peak volume was reached they were still doing that. Which means that you’re pretty much committed to making as many of the widgets as you originally projected, regardless of the market circumstances.

              On the flip side, Nikon 1 had underachieved expected R&D recovery costs.

              And thus we’re where we are today. Trying to sell off committed inventory in one hand, trying to recover more R&D costs in the other.

              But I don’t think it’s quite as bad as you suggest. In one sense you can say this: making a highly competent SMALLER camera is worth some premium. Thing is, you’ve got to hit those marketing buttons just right, or the prices do indeed look off and unsupportable.

            • Spy Black

              It’s unfortunate Nikon never really focused correctly the N1 system. It has always appeared as though it was designed by two different teams, one with casual consumer in mind, and one with pros in mind, never discussing their concepts with each other.

              I guess they also never seemed to let go of the apparent fear that a fully capable N1 system would upset their DSLR sales, but personally I think a fully capable N1 body would complement the system. Just as many have bought D500s to augment their D5s, a competent V body could also augment the system.

              Looking at the DL’s, it almost appears as if Nikon has production design ADHD.

  • Aldo

    Damn… these cameras were for sure great value when they were supposed to come out (especially the 24-85)… but by next year Im not so sure anymore. I guess I’ll keep looking not cool with my d750 and 35mm f1.8 in the meantime for family go outs

  • BrainBeat

    Good thing I am not waiting to buy one of these as this is way too long a delay. If they could not produce enough soon after being announced then they should have waited before being announced.

  • Davo

    We still don’t know what the delay is due to exactly.
    Have the hardware all been manufactured and sitting somewhere waiting for the software to be fixed or are there hardware issues that required a redesign of some components. In which case, will the finally shipped 1year late DLs be specced as announced or ‘upgraded’ somehow.
    The RX100 V just dropped with a lot of AF performance upgrades. The DLs would need to be damn good in use. The 18-50DL is still unique though.

  • This is a long wait. I’m glad I didn’t wait for, and got the Fuji X70 instead.

    • jarmatic

      I just got mine yesterday! What a sweet camera it is.

    • Aldo

      Damn.. the nikon kicks it in the balls on paper though… but we can’t take pictures with a piece of paper unfortunately.

      • If we’re talking about fixed lens, then the Coolpix A is already there at the same focal length as the X70, so we can’t say that Nikon doesn’t have an equivalent…

  • Davo

    Actually what I’d buy right now is a shockproof, waterproof to 10m DL. And they should take a leaf out of Olympus TG-4’s book with good accessories like the ring flash diffuser FD-1. Perfect for all types of holidays and you won’t be worried letting your kids use it.

  • HKer

    From an event photographer’s perspective, I always carry two DSLR’s D750+D4s, with the holy trinity. Depending which lenses you have most of the time on your cameras, either the DL18-50 or 24-85 fits in neatly, so enables you to leave the 14-24 or 24-70 behind. Ok these may not be put in the pocket cameras but many pros have side pouches on a belt. Pros if in need of this will wait, but they will also size up Sony and others as they are fixed lenses. Personally I use the 14-24 a lot and hard to replace with the same quality in DX, so you’re kind of stuck, so it means the 24-70 lens could be replaced by the DL24-85. Assuming the autofocus and image quality is good. That has to be seen.

    • I do not think the DL 24-85 f4.5-7.5 will nicely replace a 24-70 f2.8 but a 24-85mm 3.5-4.5 VR can already gather twice the light of the DL for half the weight of the 24-70 2.8

      • HKer

        I do currently use the 24-70 f2.8 often, just with 10 hrs on your feet carrying the holy trinity is a killer lol. The reason why I think the DL or any other small good quality fast focusing camera will do is that you can pull it out and start snapping straight away. While if you had another lens, you would have to take it out of your pouch, take the other lens off/ put in bag and mount the other lens, in all those few seconds matter. My case is more about getting the shot, i.e. capturing the moment, then about the bokeh.

      • To be more accurate: with the same sensor technology, the 24-85 3.5-4.5 on full frame (with ISO cranked up twice) will theoretically have twice less noise than the DL 24-85 “1.8-2.8”

    • Aldo

      Is this a joke?

      • HKer

        Have you walked major outdoor events carrying the holy trinity, D750 + D4s + SB910 + 14-24 24-70 70-200 + fisheye + 50mm f1.4 + spare batteries (5.5kg of gear) for 10-12 hrs with 30 minute break, in outdoor weather 30C – yet not comprise the image quality and yet obtain the shots the client requires? It’s a killer.

        • HKer

          oh I forgot also the monopod 🙂

        • Aldo

          I usually plan ahead… I no longer carry many heavy zooms. I get it that you wanna be ready for anything but it’s not really necessary. I don’t understand though if you are willing to carry all that to get the best shot but then contemplate the idea of replacing any of those zooms with a superwide zoom that will give you an equivalent FOV.

          Let me suggest a small experiment. Go over the files for a few events and check the focal lengths at which you are shooting (round off to the nearest prime lens). I think the results will surprise you. You will find a large percentage of your photos are shot a certain focal length. You will also discover when and how you use the ‘odd (more rare) focal lengths.. And there will lie the answer as to how you can trim down on weight and gain many other benefits.

          • Thom Hogan

            Agreed. Most event and wedding photographers these days are using fast primes, maybe one zoom.

      • HKer

        Aldo – may I know your experiences carrying this amount of gear? Would like to hear a constructive comment, based on my working situation. Or is your comment a joke:)

        • Aldo

          I answered the top question first. I used to carry a lot of gear like you to many events for a long time… but found a way around it and I get better results…. it really transformed the shooting experience for me.

          • HKer

            I shoot major concerts with crowds of 10,000 people, in the press pit you want dramatic shots, so distortion isn’t an issue and infact makes the shot more dramatic, hence the 14-24. The 14mm is also just about wide enough to capture the whole stage. Given the crowd is 10k+ the stage has to be huge. It’s about 2.5m high. Any shorter like 16/17mm you would not be able to capture the full width of the stage in one shot from the press pit. Given that there are 10,000 ppl next to you you can’t get into the crowds, without spending an hour in and out. The long lens I use is an 80-400, usually in the range of 350-400mm from the AV lighting unit has just enough reach to the front of the stage. I have been using a 24-70, but it’s not one of my main lenses. So a fixed 50mm will do, but it means I have to change lenses say in the pit, which with 3 songs you are allowed means fumbling around. I rather pull out a compact to shoot from the pit in case I need something in between 24 and 80mm. Besides the concerts I also have to cover F&B, sponsors, people having fun, kid stuff. Also deal with both daytime and night time. The shoot is 10 hrs straight. I have clocked 100,000 steps in three days during this shoot! Going DX, now sure given the quality I need in the wide angle as if it rains I still need to shoot. Kinda tough:)

            • Aldo

              Sounds intense. I don’t work in such settings so I cant relate personally… but I know a few people who do such photography and something I see a lot is dx and smaller bodies like 4/3… not sure if it’s because of reach or convenience. If perspective isnt an issue I can understand why you are wanting to use a point and shoot.

            • Spy Black

              If you’re willing to consider DLs like that, you may want to consider M4/3 cameras. They strike a balance between size/weight and IQ, and you still have the ability to change lenses. Panasonic has a 7-14mm F/4 (14-28mm FF equivalent) that you can throw on any number of compact bodies.

            • HKer

              Hi Spy Black, I’m up for anything that does the job, so besides these DL’s also will look at the new Sony RX100v, been also looking at the Olympus OMD E1 mk2. For me, ideally would like to see the next upgrade of Nikon 1 V2, as it has the benefits of using my Nikon AF lenses in times of trouble. It’s hard to keep up with what’s coming out nowadays, but I feel in 2017 a whole lot of goodies will come out from Nikon in their 100th year anniversary.

            • Spy Black

              It’s hard to say if we’ll see a V model again, but hope springs eternal. 🙂

  • 6,7-18,5mm f1.8-2.8 camera directly advertised as 18-50mm f1.8-2.8. And nobody cares.

    • Davo

      Which compact doesn’t advertise it as 135 equiv focal lengths?

      • the focal equivalence is absolutely fine but I would not mind advertising the aperture equivalence as well then, but marketing does not think alike!

        • Davo

          I’m not saying it’s correct but that’s the convention everyone uses in the p&s segment. Actual aperture but equivalent focal length.

    • jtra

      It is like stating that small passenger car engine has same horsepower as big semi-truck with implied asterisk that it applies only when the engine would be scaled to truck engine size.

      When new compact cameras are announced, I often have to look at high resolution image of the lens on compact cameras to read actual parameters because real ones are often very hidden in PR text.

  • Mike D

    These cameras are DOA. Why in the world would I buy one of these instead of a Fuji or Sony unless I am a total Nikon fanboi? Add the Key Mission cameras to the mix. Nikon has seriously gone off track. I’m still wedded to my Nikon FX bodies. But Nikon better start showing something significant really soon or they are going to start seeing a significant exodus.

    • Thom Hogan

      No, they’re WOA (weak on arrival). Big difference. Unfortunately, that seems to be Nikon’s mantra lately. KeyMission, WOA. D3400, WOA.

      • Aldo

        These cameras better perform perfectly otherwise nikon will draw even more negative pr

  • zzzxtreme

    This means there will be nothing for N1 series. I want a 24/28 f1.8 (or faster) equivalent for my V1

  • Alda Smite

    so – ex coolpix, named as DL, for 1000£ announced in late 2015 and shipping in 2017 and someone stills say it will gonna be good and worth it?

    • Fly Moon

      I don’t think you know what you’re talking about!

  • RodneyKilo

    Exciting specs a year ago, Nikon. But now you’re talking about releasing items with last year’s specs- if you ever do release them.
    Should have used the delay to develop the follow-on to the originally proposed model, and then can the original model.

    • Thom Hogan

      I’m still more curious about the fact that Nikon announced these the way they did. The original announcement was February with expected delivery in late June, which already seems like they were pressing too hard. I’d like to know who okayed announcing a product that hadn’t completed testing verification. That seems like the biggest issue here, and that the D500 was clearly rushed at the same time makes it seem like things were a bit out of control.

      • lordbaldric

        Seems like it’s a wild ride at Nikon HQ these days.

  • MB

    Much more compact Sony RX100 III and with built in EVF (instead of this contraption on top) will most likely be sold at 500$ for Christmas … Sony RX100 IV for 750$ … and newest Sony RX100 IV for 900$ … that would hardly leave any space for DL that will not even be available till next year (hopefully in January but I would not bet on it) …

    • Spy Black

      One thing I have NOT seen is a drop in Sony RX prices. They simply keep adding to the roster but never drop the prices. So you won’t see an RX100 III for that price.

      As an RX100 III owner, I cannot recommend it. AF is horrible on it. Also, nice design – until you drop it. Dropped mine twice, both times toast, and expensive to fix. Apparently making them out of metal, counter-intuitively, was NOT a good idea. Had they been plastic, they would just take a lickin’ and keep on tickin’…

  • Joey

    Nikon DL? Nikon DL what? So yesterday….

  • CharlesTaylor52

    A $350 price difference is huge, particularly if they have similar specs. I’m not sure I’d try and convince anyone to wait for Nikon though, January is a guess at a release date, their quality has been dodgy with new releases over the past few years, so even with a better price I’d question whether anyone should wait for the 24-85 if they really need a camera right now.

  • Joey

    Nikon is already 2 years plus late to the game and now further delay.

    Panasonic has the new LX10 and soon the LX100 successor along with the new Sony RX100 V. Canon will likely beat Nikon further with the G9X and G5X successors.

    Sometimes when you’re given an opportunity and do not take advantage of it, you often do not get the same chance again.

  • dbltax

    GBP is dirt now, it’s only a matter of time before it reaches parity with Monopoly money.

  • Lark Andrew Eugenio Balcita

    I guess these cameras will perform far better than the new ones because of these delays months after months of quality testing and upgrading no wonder the price increased a bit. One thing for sure quality made. cheers

  • jian9007

    B&H now doesn’t even show any expected availability time, which is not a good sign. Meanwhile, preorders for the new RX100 V start Monday and should be shipping by end of October, and the LX10 will ship mid-November. I was interested in the DL line and had it preordered, but canceled it.

    Now I need a compact to take on a trip in November, but since I’m leaving November 15th, the LX10 is out. So I will be ordering the RX100 V on Monday morning. Having the autofocus much improved and being able to use it when shooting video is a huge plus over the RX100 IV (as autofocus during video was horribly slow on RX100 IV). Wish it had a touch screen, but my old micro 4/3 Olympus just had a regular fixed screen on back (and no Wi-Fi, etc.) and I lived with it, so I’m sure I’ll be fine.

  • Chaitanya

    Nikon is master of Vaporware at this point. Not only they have screwed up the release of DL but also increased the price of these non existent products to the point that competition is offering better products at lower prices.

  • Drewzilla

    Well, I just bought the Canon G7X Mark II instead. Nice going, Nikon.

    It’s pretty lame: I would have preferred 4K video with the DL24-85, but I need this for a trip that I’m going on next week.

  • T N Args

    DxO themselves would say to ignore such a difference. In fact, I wouldn’t like to bet that their inter-test accuracy is that good.

  • T N Args

    Am I the only one here interested in the DL24-500? Comments below about “too late, too bad, what a shame” (because other cameras have moved past the DL’s) doesn’t apply to the 24-500. Not if it CAFs like a Nikon 1. The Sony RX10’s and Panasonic 1″ FZ’s are not in that space at all.

  • Leslie Hoerwinkle

    My tea leaf reader says they’ll ship in 2019.

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