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Nikon Df camera additional coverage

Nikon-Df-with-Nikon-F

Credit: Tom Grill

Some additional Nikon Df coverage:

New-dedicated-Nikon-Df-website
There is a new dedicated Nikon Df website.

Nikon-Df-camera-official-questionnaire
Do you have a strong opinion about the Nikon Df camera - fill up this official questionnaire and tell Nikon what you think.

Nikon-Df-best-seller
It's now really news when a new products climes to the #1 spot on the Amazon best selling cameras list, the interesting part is that more silver Df cameras are being pre-ordered (both body only and kits).

Nikon Df has a magnesium-alloy body frame only on the top, back and bottom (source):
Nikon-Df-magnesium-alloy-body-frame
Nikon-Df-camera-magnesium-alloy-body-frame

Current Nikon DSLR range (source):

Current-Nikon-DSLR-range

What the Nikon Df camera should have been (source):

What-the-Nikon-Df-camera-should-have-been

Two new hands-on videos - the Nikon Df was in development for more than 4 years and the official release was delayed because of the earthquake in Japan:

Here are some of the early Nikon Df design sketches - the Df project started in the summer of 2009 (source):

Nikon-Df-design-sketches

Nikon Df sample images (click for larger view):

Nikon Df Nikon Df
Nikon Df Nikon Df
Nikon Df Nikon Df
Nikon Df Nikon Df
Nikon Df Nikon Df
Nikon Df Nikon Df
Nikon Df Nikon Df
Nikon Df Nikon Df
Nikon Df Nikon Df

What others are saying:

"The Df is easily the smallest full frame camera that Nikon has ever released, with the company banking on the idea that keen photographers will find that DSLR image-making quality combined with a smaller, lighter camera body and external control is worth the $2750 pricetag." /Forbes

"It’s cool. It looks and feels kind of like….your dad’s camera. It certainly does not have the foreboding heft and street howitzer feel that attends walking around with one of the bigger flagship DSLRs. Some of those make you feel like Iron Man with a camera." /Joe McNally (there are also few sample images on his website)

"It really is a thing of beauty, though. For a working photographer (weddings, events, etc) this actually does fill a need for some Nikon shooters who might not want to deal with all the pixels offered by the D800. But the lack of video still seems like a gamble." /Popphoto

"It's a spectacularly high-end camera designed for professional photographers looking for a more portable supplement to (or replacement for) their D4, or for those with a wicked case of film-era nostalgia. Like the best cameras we've seen from Fujifilm and Olympus, it marries classic looks with updated performance, and if you've got the cash to burn the Df is nothing if not a scene-stealer." /The Verge

"But there’s some good battery news. Despite using the EN-EL14a battery that also appears in other Nikonmodels, the company claims it will deliver 1,400 shots per charge. Which is bloomin’ brilliant - if, of course, it’s true." /Pocket-lint

"Reincarnation is the new innovation -- the camera industry's latest salute to days gone by comes compliments of Nikon." /Engadget

"While the purist crowd will love the optical viewfinder, the Df's mirrorbox does add a chunk of heft to the camera. Consider that the Df's body has nearly twice the volume of the new full-frame mirrorless cameras from Sony. At 710 grams, it weights about 50-percent more as well." /Gizmodo

"Built from magnesium alloy and with the same weather and dust sealing as the Nikon D800, the DF is more than just a expensive novelty, retro-styled camera. For documentary and street photographers, even photo-journalists, it is a serious tool with the professional build quality you would expect." /AP

The Nikon Df is available for pre-order at B&HAmazonAdorama and Jessops.

This entry was posted in Nikon Df. Bookmark the permalink. Trackbacks are closed, but you can post a comment.
  • Jeff Curtner
    • Pablo Ricasso

      OK, so if this Bjorne guy says its good, then it must be?

      • matador

        I must admit I never heard of the guy, either.

        • Bill Pahnelas

          he’s been around for a while…

      • brian

        http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html

        That’s his website before he got involved with “nikongear”. At the bottom are a tonne of older and newer lens evaluations

      • Ken Elliott

        If Bjorne likes it, you can take it to the bank. He really knows his stuff. I don’t know anyone anywhere that tests lenses as extensively as Bjorne. If you don’t know him, you’ve missed out on a great resource.

      • Jeff Curtner

        Bjørn Rørslett has a large collection of NIKKOR MF lenses and he is quite well known for his writings a few years ago. Somehow he stopped updating his website and is only active in nikongear.com. I trust his opinion much more than other Nikon bloggers/writers.

        http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html

  • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

    AHHHH!! I can’t stop myself. I think I’ll buy tonight. Damn.

    • longzoom

      You already have exceptionally good bikers images! So buy 2-3 new Nikkors! Come on, you do not need it tonight! LZ

      • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

        Thanks for the compliment on my images!

        Too late tho. It’s kind of what I wanted when I got my D800 – which I love and will keep forever!

        • longzoom

          Yeah, we both have very good copies of beloved 28-300! BTW, I’ve posted something new, would like to see? Go to Cafe!

          • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

            Thanks, I’ll check it out over on NC.

            • desmo

              Bikers? Cafe?
              are we talking cafe racers or harley’s?

            • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

              We know each other from another website.
              Nikon Cafe.

              I shoot some two-wheel sports, especially Motocross and bicycles.

            • desmo

              cool

            • Ken Elliott

              Motocross? Same here. My avatar is actually me racing my CR125 in the old man’s class against 450’s.

    • genotypewriter

      You’re weak…

      • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

        Voted up :(

        But I own a Dƒ!

        • desmo

          enjoy

        • Aldo

          I’m jelly

  • usa

    Admin, More videos of models, please.

    • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

      NSFW samples are also ok.

  • Dweeb

    OMG additional coverage? Hasn’t this been done to death yet? How about another Nikon teaser, say part 36?

    • Lumenatic

      A teaser series about the alarm clock would be neat :-)

      • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

        Say what you want, but I want that damn alarm clock.

  • LeadWrist

    I’m assuming no full frame AF right?

    • desmo

      If you mean ,
      do the focus pt’s cover the entire frame…
      no, but,
      no DSLR Af achieves that..

      it’s coverage is smaller than a 51 pt AF module,

      but as has already been pointed out in earlier post’s
      that module wouldn’t fit in this camera’s
      form factor(small size)

      • LeadWrist

        Sigh, oh well. Would be nice to have.

  • hexx

    strange, does flickr re-compress images? those landscape photos seem to be quite soft even though you can see sharpening halos around the rocks

    • SO

      This is what 16 megapixels looks like on FF with wide angle. Full disclosure at least, although 95% of people wouldn’t know other than looking at the pretty little jpg pictures on computer screen

      • hexx
        • Anthony Mateus

          Wait…I’m not sure but….is that a dust spot!?

          • hexx

            ah, apologists :) can’t see any, could you give me coordinates so i can properly inspect?

            • Guest

              False alarm, my screen.

            • nikonzall

              about a 1/3 down and close to the left edge. round big circle.

            • hexx

              oh i can’t see it… i’m gonna get a loupe

            • Anthony Mateus

              He’s right. Ruh-Roh.

            • desmo

              doesn’t show up on my screen (downloaded photo) key is to move enlarged pic with arrows if spot moves it’s in pic
              if it stays the same it’s your spittle on your monitor

              ps. round opapue would be oil not dust, I don’t see either

          • desmo

            No,
            it’s troll shite

          • Smaczny Konsek
        • Arthur Nazarian

          The quality is fine, except that the stupid photographer focust on the background…

          • hexx

            soft, not fine, it’s soft

    • intergalactic_turkey

      not necessarily. the pics on original nikon site look not much better, especially the sea side motiv.

  • Maji

    Goes to show how much the earthquake affected Nikon’s plans. I think the Df will indeed be popular with wedding and event photographers who wanted an updated D700. It is not an exact update, fps wise, but not a bad one either.

    • MyrddinWilt

      I think that for them the styling is going to be key. Most professional photographers don’t have to worry what their gear looks like. But a wedding photographer who shows up with the same sort of gear that the customer owns is likely to get marked down for it.

      That is why I would go for the silver version. It is distinctively different to the other bodies and clearly intended for professional use.

      But the lack of video does seem like it could be a problem for the wedding market.

      I would not want to trade an optical viewfinder for weight on the F-mount body right now. But that might change in a few years time. If you care about weight go for the CX solution.

      • zoetmb

        I agree that pro photographers have to show with equipment that their clients wouldn’t have to make an impression and create a perception of value. But I don’t agree that this camera creates that impression because the small size will make it seem less pro to the average client.
        I don’t necessarily believe that medium or large format is needed to make great wedding pictures, but from a perception standpoint, it does make a difference.
        Having said that, I shoot a lot of music shows, mostly with long lenses. I was at one show and someone walked up to me and said, “Oh..you must be a pro.” I replied, “Why, because of the long lens?”. They responded, “No, because you’re wearing ear plugs.”
        As for the Df, as I’ve posted before, I think it’s an arbitrary assemblage of retro and digital functionality and it looks to me like it was designed by committee. And it’s still too heavy, although the size might be right (can’t tell until I get one in my hands). If it’s true that you can’t use the lens aperture ring on the non-G lenses, then it’s completely absurd. I don’t mind that the ISO setting is on a top mechanical dial, but the modern control dial is actually better for adjusting aperture and speed because you can look through the viewfinder while doing it.
        What I really wanted to see from Nikon was their version of a Sony A7/A7r with new lightweight and smaller sized f-mount lenses to accompany it. If they substantially reduce the parts count and wiring inside their DSLRs, as Thom Hogan has proposed, I think they could accomplish it. It seems to me that all the functions of a modern DSLR aside from the image processor and the sensor could be placed on a single IC.

        • Maji

          Like someone stated here earlier, I believe there is a setting in the D800 that allows the use of aperture ring in the non G lenses. I am not sure if it is there in the Df, but I would tend to believe that that menu option is there. I don’t think you can make the dSLR the same size as a mirrorless, the flange distances, the mirror box etc, come to play. I think lens wise you can’t make them small for a given viewing circle… please check the Sony with a lens on with an Nikon dSLR with equivalent lens. Life is all about making compromises and also remembering that we can’t satisfy everyone all the time… Aesop wrote that a couple of thousand years ago.

  • Lamar Lamb

    Some silly comments above……

    “If you want video you have to buy the Nikon D4. The Df is positioned for pure photography” —- have they considered the D800, D610, D7100, etc…..?

    “It’s a spectacularly high-end camera designed for professional photographers looking for a more portable supplement to (or replacement for) their D4″ —– “Spectacularly high end”??? Really??

    • silmasan

      Hey, does anyone notice they even forgot to put the D300s in that “current DSLR range” poster?

      • http://nikonrumors.com/ Nikon Rumors

        I don’ think they make the D300s anymore.

  • Al

    Many brave souls out there pre-ordering a Nikon.

    • Bill Pahnelas

      made in Japan, my friend. made in Japan.

  • veggie

    My d600 feels so “retro” now….

    • callibrator

      Why?

      • desmo

        Nikon released D610
        :(

        • veggie

          lol

      • veggie

        The Df made me feel as if my d600 was released eons ago… i guess its a knock-on effect of the “retro” Df being so in fashion and all the rage now :) btw, i really like the Df and would get it if i didn’t already have the d600.

  • HotDuckZ

    Smaller Df look better but current Df feel really good when I holding it. :)

    • orpickaname

      My Gf, too, feels really good when I… uh, nevermind.

      • orpickaname

        I meant Panasonic! what happens with innocence these days! >:-(

  • usa

    Is that a flash cube in the early drawings?
    Perhaps it will be an upgrade available in the next model.

  • Drazen B

    I believe this is what most of us were hoping Df would have looked like:

    • JakeB

      True, me too.

    • hexx

      they wouldn’t be able to fit 3.2″ LCD at the back with that height

      • callibrator

        You don’t need 3.2″ LCD on a ‘retro’ camera. Smaller than that should suffice well.
        BTW, with smart design, even a 3.2″ LCD could be possible on the camera on the right.

        • hexx

          can’t argue that second part ;)

        • El Aura

          And you cannot fit a sophisticated AF system below the mirror box of that short camera. Why is the D800 10 mm taller than the D600? They have the same display, same viewfinder, same flash. Yup, because the 51 point AF system needs more space.

          Another of those I want to have my cake and eat it expectations. Please put the best AF system in the camera and let it take up as much space as the AF system in the F3 or FM required, ie, zero.

          • desmo

            good point

          • per

            If you compare the D7100 with the D7000 you find that the D7100 is 1,5 mm taller than the D7000. A small price for having the cake.

            • El Aura

              On a DX camera there is more space for the AF module since the mirror box sits 4 mm higher relative to the mount than in an FX camera.

          • http://ohm-image.net/ ohm image

            The point for me is: why put a sophisticated electronic AF system in a camera designed to look like a manual camera?

            Why not design a camera designed to work flawlessly with manual lenses; a camera designed to be small and unobtrusive? A camera looking like an FM/A/E that is light, has a bright viewfinder, very few buttons and controls, and sell it to people who would buy it without question.

            Why design a camera that is so ridiculously placed? If a camera designed to look like an F3 must be larger than an F3 in order to fit in a sophisticated AF system, it is a failure of purpose and design.

          • One More Thought

            Thank you for attempting to restore some sense of reality.

            All engineering involves tradeoffs. I don’t think many people understand the engineering tradeoffs involved in designing a device like this. I certainly do not, and that is why I am hesitant to demand everything for nothing.

            It seems that everyone just has their own wish list, without regard to what is technically feasible, or what the tradeoffs would be.

            I also am tired of people complaining about Nikon reusing a component or feature from another camera. That is something that every manufacturer does, and it is smart business. It keeps cost down for customers, and reusing a tested component also increases reliability.

            I am still ambivalent about this camera but much of the criticism is not realistic.

            • Aldo

              “keeping cost down for customers”
              d800 51pt = 2299
              Df 39pt = 2700

            • One More Thought

              In my country the D800 is 250 usdollars more expensive than the Df.

              But a camera is more than just the AF module. It’s not fair to focus just on that one data point.

              Also, we don’t know the tradeoffs for using that 51 pt. AF. It sounds so good to just throw it in there, like there’s no other factors involved. But with real world engineering, there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

            • Aldo

              I mean I understand your point… you just have no dough to back it up. Cuz there is NONE. Nikon just does’t wanna give us another d700.

            • One More Thought

              el aura above posts:

              And you cannot fit a sophisticated AF system below the mirror box of that short camera. Why is the D800 10 mm taller than the D600? They have the same display, same viewfinder, same flash. Yup, because the 51 point AF system needs more space.

              There is more information to suggest that Nikon faced real world engineering tradeoffs rather than that they didn’t want to give us another d700.

            • Aldo

              come on.. the Df is huge… okay so you wanna use comments (of other people) to prove your point, even though there is really no proof that the AF system is why the d800 is bigger… let me refer to per’s comment. “D7100″ is 1.5mm taller than the D7000. What now?

            • One More Thought

              el aura answers:

              On a DX camera there is more space for the AF module since the mirror box sits 4 mm higher relative to the mount than in an FX camera.

              As to the Df being huge…it’s smaller than a D700 and D800, and around the same size as the D610. That’s large but not “huge” esp. for a FF dslr. In fact this is the smallest FF dslr available right now.

              I am willing to bet that if we could speak with the Nikon engineers, they could give us very good technical reasons for their design choices. You may not agree with their decisions but it would be very enlightening to understand the engineering realities.

            • Aldo

              Okay so you say the Df is about the same size as the d600? Okay. Check this out. If you look at the d600 vs d800 you will see that most of the high difference comes from below the lens mount =]

            • ttlens

              > If you look at the d600 vs d800 you will see that most of the height difference comes from below the lens mount

              My understanding may be wrong but I believe the AF system sits under the mirror box which is why the extra height is below the lens mount.

            • Aldo

              hmmm…I don’t think so. My guess would that the focusing sensor would be around the optical area. I can’t confirm it either.

            • ttlens

              Got curious enough to look it up. The AF sensors are in fact located under the mirror box:

              http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2013/11/01/phase-detection-autofocus-how-your-dslrs-af-system-actually-works/

            • Aldo

              Good job researching that… it proves that point. Although I’m still not fully convinced size was the deciding factor as to why they didn’t include the 51 point on the Df (especially considering the mark 3 has a 61 point system and it’s shorter than the d800) It opens it as a possibility. Good follow up.

            • ttlens

              I should’ve added this to my previous reply but since I didn’t…

              As the AF sensor is below the mirror box the only options for Nikon to make the Df smaller were:

              1. Remove the AF system and make it an MF-only camera. I can’t imagine that selling very well.

              2. Go with a DX sensor and lose the deliciousness of the D4 sensor. That would’ve sucked, but maybe they’ll do it for a future additional model if the Df sells well.

              3. Building a mirrorless camera with an electronic viewfinder. They probably wouldn’t have been able to use the D4 sensor for this either.

              There are always compromises but given the options I think having a larger camera was the best compromise Nikon could make for the Df.

      • Don Hogfan

        No LCD at all please! The LCD can be attached with a vertical grip.

    • intergalactic_turkey

      You forgot to put a 999$ price tag on it.

    • Nihon

      +1 .. Right one looks more like classic Nikon.

    • photoroto

      If you look at the pictures of the stripped down camera chassis, you can see that most of the extra height comes from the mechanisms associated with the analog dials. The price of the dials is height.

      But doesn’t the “should” picture look lovely tonight? Good work on that, Alex! Silly me, I might have bought that thing in spite of myself. But not its fat girlfriend to the left.

      • ronin

        I bet those analog dials are just switches, and the connection to the electronically timed shutter is just electric. In other words, they don’t feature linkage to a clockwork shutter mechanism. Which begs the question why they need to be so high.

        • Ronan

          Cuz the Dfs (slim) will be $499 more expensive and 30% smaller!

        • photoroto

          Agreed that those dials are ultimately being tended by a microprocessor. But just the mechanisms to give the clicks and locks and general user feel would be bulky. Mechanisms don’t scale down so easily as electronics.

          We can scoff at the “crudeness” of the switches and sparse rotators on DSLR’s. But that simplicity contributes a lot to the reliability of those devices and I have to wonder if those fancy Df knobs will soon be the source of trouble from mechanical wear and tear.

          • TheInconvenientRuth

            I have never had an old fashioned dial on any Nikon body fail on me, ever. But both my D2x and my D3s had to be sent in because the front command wheel became sticky and unresponsive…

            • photoroto

              Well, good point. My only mechanical failure on an “F” series was the shoot button and its flange becoming too loose to work well. But these double-decked Df knobs are a great deal more ambitious from a mechanical standpoint, and stand quite a ways away from the body. That gives more damaging leverage to a hit near the top of the stack than with the old, low profile shutter speed knob.

              OTOH, I have had several cameras where the mechanical shutter speeds marked on the dial had not too much to do with the actual shutter speeds. Who has not owned a mechanical camera where the “1 Second” was closer to 3 or 4 seconds (or forever) unless you exercised it a bit before the shoot.

              And the old guy who designed those original sturdy “F” knobs has long since been enjoying his retirement.

    • Truth

      Kids can’t afford this camera.

      • Pablo Ricasso

        I think you’re little confused…

        • Truth

          Main users: Adult
          Current size looks good to hold. All four fingers on the grip so it’s secure and comfortable.
          Understand?

          • Drazen B

            Not quite. The grip would have been proportionally redesigned and enlarged if Nikon was to produce camera on the right.

            But they didn’t make it (yet) and Alex didn’t change grip’s design and look in Photoshop. So it’s pointless to argue.

            • Truth

              The question is this,
              Will my pinkie get any love?

              Yes? Great!

          • Pablo Ricaso

            I do understand, but do you?

            • Truth

              I understand.
              You now understand.

            • umeshrw

              What I do not understand is ” what has affordability got to do with holdability” ? May be I am missing something out in language ?

    • broxibear

      Hmmmmm…I wanted something along these lines, less of those buttons and dials.

      • El Aura

        You mean no button for DOF preview? Admittedly with modern focussing screens below f/4, not much will change when engaging the DOF preview.

        And no button to quickly change the lens models for non-CPU lenses? In fact that is one example for the schizophrenic position of some people who don’t want any settings, any buttons, any menus for inputing missing EXIF parameters like focal length, but they still want the EXIF data to be there.

      • Bamboojled

        So you basically are showing the exact same thing but without the aperture control and no depth of field preview and fn button.

        So the Df is pretty much everything you hoped for based on these images, for me 3 buttons is not a deal breaker

        • broxibear

          I was just showing the aesthetic changes, I’d have prefered it to be far simpler in design. Simple design doesn’t mean simple controls or losing controls. Look at the design of the Leica S2 for example, the aperture on my GF1 is controled by the thumb wheel on the back…click it and it controls shutter speed in manual and exposure comp in aperture priority…you don’t need a plethora of buttons.

        • Manuel

          You won’t loose aperture control without the front dial – the standard dial for aperture control is the thumb dial on the back.

          For me, the front dial doesn’t spoil the look or the simplicity – it just looks barely usable to me.

      • Manuel

        After all, the Df looks good to me in general. But if you look closer, there are several flaws – style-wise and usability-wise, and I wonder how this could happen, regarding the long period of development.

        The idea of using traditional controls is one aspect, and to me, that’s not necessarily ‘retro’. And ‘retro’ style is not a prerequisite for traditional controls and it’s not necessarily good.

        The proportions of the Df are fine for me; the FM, FE etc. always felt too small for me. The way Nikon integrated the ‘retro’ prism housing looks really good to me.

        But there are quite a few things that don’t really match:

        Back view of the camera: Looks good to me overall, but:
        – The replay and delete buttons really should stick out a bit.

        Front view:
        – Why are the Dof-preview and Function buttons placed on this ugly dent? They have only an electrical function. – And how is the front dial supposed to be used? It doesn’t look quite convenient, and it looks rather unusable with gloves on.

        Top view: Also looks good to me overall, but:
        – Why the Nikkormat sixties style of the dials with their metal riffle? That doesn’t really match the rest of the style; it’s unpleasant to the touch and it’s barely usable with gloves. I would have strongly preferred the F3 or F4 style rubberized riffles on the dials, and I also would prefer the F4 style locking mechanism on the dials.
        – Why a three-step battery meter? I can’t believe it. This is the last thing I’m missing from vintage cameras.
        – Why no custom settings on the PSAM dial?

        My conclusion is: Many things done right, but also many important details neglected.

        Yesterday, I took out my F3 and F4 and played a little bit with them. These are quite marvels (with all their limitations). Maybe Nikon could have done (even) better by hiring Giugiaro again for the Df.

        Significantly, the nice marketing picture taken by Tom Grill coming with this article leaves the mentioned flaws in the shadows …

        At the end of the day, no one really needs the font dial, and Nikon could at least fix the battery meter on the Info screen via firmware update. Most of my other complaints could also be taken care of rather easily.

        Then, the Df could really convince me. I’m waiting …

        • broxibear

          Hey Manuel,

          You make some valid points, I think it was a half hearted attempt by Nikon.

          The guy in the Camerastore video makes a good point, ” it’s just an amalgamation of other Nikon cameras, we essentially have a D600 body with a D4 sensor in it, and some vey whimsical dials and controls”.
          They could have done far better.
          It’ll be interesting to see if Canon follow suit ?

          • Manuel

            Hey broxibear,

            I don’t think that Canon will or can follow. Just think about their complete break about traditional design with the introduction of the EOS in 1987, 26 years ago.

            And: How to integrate EF and FD bayonets?

            Nikon sold their F3 until 2001, they sell remainders of stock of their AiS lenses until now. That’s a completely different story.

            In my opinion, Canon today doesn’t have enough followers who appreciate ‘traditional’ style and controls.

            • CHA0S_TH30RY

              I think a digital AE-1 could be very successful.

          • Ronan

            Canon will, like always, not touch this market share.

            First because FD/EF compatibility is a HUGE problem, secondly because Canon broke away from any good looking camera’s a long time ago (~25 years ago) and it’s not a canon if it looks/feel good (poor ergonomics).

          • this_isnt_real

            what more do you want from a camera? a hand job?

            • guest

              Ha! This cuts so very close to the core of what’s going on in Photography today. The fact you made it a vulgar comment as well only makes it better! Well played!

        • RxGus

          How can you have a custom setting on the PASM dial… when everything (iso, exposure comp, shutter speed, fps) is a manual dial control?

          • Manuel

            Hey RyGus,

            you’re right for the things you’ve mentioned, but what about AF modes at first hand, white balance, Fn button setting, Picture Control settings, D-Lighting settings – and there’s so much more in the menus.

          • Zeke

            That’s the problem with the manual dials. Either have them set and represent the camera state – and deliberately constrain the camera’s functions to what can be represented with dials – or don’t have them.

            I never liked how the shutter speed knob on the FA and F4 might not reflect the actual shutter speed depending on the position of the separate exposure mode lever. This wasn’t a problem on the FG, FE or F3. With the Df, Nikon has resurrected this weirdness, and gone even further by allowing shutter speed to be set using a second, unlabeled command wheel. It’s a bit of a mess.

            To me, a simplified, “pure” interface would go further the _other_ direction. Keep the command wheels and convert all the remaining knobs to soft switches with, say, a light indicating their current position. That way, stuff like metering mode, autofocus mode, shutter mode, etc. could be recalled with a single custom setting. Then equip the camera with, say, 16 custom setting positions. It’d be great.

            • Zeke

              …Oh, and get rid of the separate “shooting” and “custom” banks, which was just crazy.

      • Don Hogfan

        Combine yours with Drazen’s mini Df and send it to Nikon design department please with the note: “You’re welcome”

    • toby

      Maybe a version with the d7100 sensor in it could be like that. And at US$1200-1500 would probaly open it up to much larger market. Nikon should make a 23-24mm prime for it to (35mm equivalent)!

      • Ronan

        $1700 body $1999 body/lens so $1000 cheaper.

        That’s a pretty good price tbh.

        • toby

          True, I would probably buy it when it dropped to $1700 lens/body

          • Ronan

            The DX would do that but this one will be expensive for at least 1-2 years.

            • George

              I don’t think so. I work at a camera store and there was exactly one person asking for this camera, while two years back there were at least 40 to 60 people asking for the D800.

              This camera is not the hit that Nikon was hoping for and it all has to do with the price vs. performance of this camera.

              We will see it come down in price very soon after it is being released.

            • grant torres

              I guess you dont work at amazon. Shown above is the bestsellers list for them: 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th!

    • Alex

      I agree.

    • Tom

      atleast do a fair comparison… where the lenses are the same size

      • desmo

        you don’t understand,
        he simply scaled the image,
        he didn’t do any real PS work
        (why the lens is smaller)

        or maybe you do
        :)

        • Tom

          Looks to me he did PS it because if he only scaled the y-axis the lens would not be round anymore.

          here is a more fair comparison

          http://postimg.org/image/r0u5yaist/

        • El Aura

          Look at the distance between the lens release button and the AF/MF selector. It is clear that the camera has be cut there and bottom simply moved up (while keeping the lens in the same position. On the left the cut was made above the DOF preview button. Along the cutlines there is only the faux leatherette which is relatively easy to stitch together again.
          Additionally the lens was cut out and made a bit smaller such that vertical compression of the camera didn’t cause the lens to obscure part of the prism.

        • Drazen B

          Nope, it is the real PS jobbie, not just scaling ;-)

      • Drazen B

        Just to be clear Tom, the image isn’t mine, it’s clearly shown in the original post above, as well as the credit to its creator..

      • Drazen B

        Lenses are the same size. It’s the optical illusion of the smaller camera that got ya…;-)

    • VK

      Yep, that’s the one. With the split screen of course:)

    • J. Dennis Thomas

      A DX Df?

      • Andrew

        Too soon to be asking. The next few cameras will focus on the EXPEED 4 image processor and its enabling contribution to (1) 1080p Video @ 60 fps for all, and (2) improved IQ (Image Quality). With it you will see cleaner high ISO images (i.e. less noise).

    • Ronan

      That for $1999 (DX sensor, slightly smaller viewfinder and LCD) and i would be all over it, instantly.

      • Aldo

        dx sensor so you can use your “classic” lenses… hmm kay.

      • One More Thought

        If it were DX sensor, people would complain that it was overpriced compared to D7100 or Fuji X series. People would moan that DX crop factor messed up their FOV on their old wide angle 35mm lenses.

        People would caterwaul about $2000 for a DX camera with no video. In fact people would complain about any DX camera these days for 2k.

        • Aldo

          People would gladly pay (imho) 2k for the mythical d400. With current nikon technology (expeed 4, d7100 sensor) it would easily yield 8-10 fps… pair that with 60p 1080 video (found in d5300) and a full metal body, you have the d300 successor. Oh and you can toss in the OLD 51 point focusing system and people won’t mind I don’t think. But no, that would kill d600 sales and FF lenses. Again nikon doing what’s convenient for them…

          • Andrew

            It looks as if the Df was in the making long before the EXPEED 4 was a reality. Now everything will be EXPEED 4 based. With this new image processor and its stronger throughput, a larger buffer, and some other niceties, the D7200 could easily morph into the D400 in the form of the D7300.

            So what we will have is the D3000, D5000, and D7000 series on the lower to prosumer/ advanced user end, and the D600, D800, and D4 on the professional end. So the Df will simply be a camera that Nikon does because it can! The Df will do a lot to remind people of the historic place Nikon holds in the photographic world. It is Nikon’s way of saying, don’t just look at Leica as the nostalgic brand, we have been there too and in a more meaningful way; and that our history is synonymous with the history of photography! Remember, Nikon started by making optics over 100 years ago.

            So if Nikon can indeed make the D7300 the successor to the D300, it will free up the D400 moniker, and make room for it being the baby D4 with its 16 MP sensor and incorporating the new EXPEED 4 image processor. This camera would inherit the size of the D600, give us 8 fps or more, plus introduce video at 1080p @ 60 fps for Nikon’s professional camera line. So the D400 will become a full frame (FX) camera and everyone will be happy.

            • umeshrw

              They sure can do all that(amen to that) but will they? They sure haven’t done that in the past.

          • Spy Black

            You’d need a hell of a buffer to get 8-10 fps on a continuous basis tho.

            • Aldo

              maybe the 24mp sensor is a bit too ambitious..

    • R!

      I wanted some god damn VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      …and a right price!

    • One More Thought

      Great mockup…and of course your smaller design would have been more preferrable for most.

      But would it be feasible from an engineering perspective to make the camera that small, with FF sensor, a mirror/prism assembly, AF module, and all of the other goodies? It seems that a FF dslr in this day and age can only get so small.

    • CHA0S_TH30RY

      Imo. Nikon should have kept the design, dimensions and build quality as close to the FM2 as possible.

  • TheInconvenientRuth

    Just got my sweaty little paws on one today… just to play with it for a while and there was a considerable queue behind me.. NPS rep brought one down to the press pool. Oh my, it is hard to describe, it just feels so… right. I’m tiny myself (4ft11) but it realy didn’t feel big at all. Nikon did sprinkle some magic dust on this one…Then again I’m used to hauling D4, D3s and D800 with MD around, so ymmvv…
    I thought I would want the silver version, but after seeing it with my 105DC-D and 105/1.8 AI-s on it, I’m going for back-in-black.
    I’m still gutted about it not having a proper MF focussing screen, but I know that if I don’t get one before they stop making them, I’ll regret it for a long, long time.
    Another consideration is that if I use this with old MF lenses and the LCD off, in areas where the population is less ‘tech savvy’, it may offer me a greater chance to blend in, attract (way) less attention than a D4 with 2,8/24-70 does, maybe resulting in more candid shots and less scrutiny from the powers-that-be.

    • usa

      Very cool! I make a lot of fun of this whole retro thing, but I bet it would be a very fun camera for everyday use. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Also, did you figure out what the knobs do when an automatic mode is chosen. Are they (shutter speed/aperture) just wrong? Can’t figure out how you can have manual dials and automatic settings….

      • TheInconvenientRuth

        Sorry, I had about 5 minutes with it and wasn’t even allowed to stick my own SD card in it, probably a pre-production sample?… There is no aperture dial and if you mount any new-ish lens you have to close it all the way down and lock it and use the little front wheel for aperture, can’t use the ring on the lens (yeah, that was a disappointment too!). I heard someone say there’s manu options for overriding the shutter dial with control wheel or vice versa but I did not have the time to try or confirm, sorry.

        • hexx

          wow, so you cannot use aperture rings on AF-D lenses and it doesn’t have focusing aid for manual glass… that’s bad, bad, bad

          • TheInconvenientRuth

            Unless I misunderstood something, yes, you have to use the control wheel on AF-D lenses. I honestly can’t see why and it s*cks.

            • TheInconvenientRuth

              And yet I still crave one. Like Bacon. I know bacon is bad for me. Can’t take pictures with bacon. Goes straight to my hips. Yet I crave bacon….

            • usa

              Actually, bacon is good for you. Read Gary Taubes. Enjoy your Df when you get it.

              Signed,
              Very jealous.

            • desmo

              buy it I crave one two’
              (wn’t sell my D600),
              but might be irresponsible and buy Df too,
              it’s a cool camera!!!

            • hexx

              strange indeed. i thought that higher models allowed the use of aperture rings on af-d lenses, maybe rep didn’t know and it’s buried somewhere in the settings

            • silmasan

              Don’t you have to change the custom menu setting to switch aperture control between command dial and aperture ring?

            • TheInconvenientRuth

              I honestly don’t know. I spend most of my time trying to figure out if there was any noticable improvement over the D800 or D4 when using shallow DOF MF lenses, that’s why I brought the 105/1.8. I didn’t do a lot of digging in the menu setings.

            • silmasan

              The focusing screen can probably still be changed later though, with 3rd party parts. Maybe it doesn’t say so in the paper because Nikon isn’t providing the option themselves.

            • TheInconvenientRuth

              Update: After careful consideration and comparing results with my husband, we both ‘feel’ (but can’t PROVE) that this VF is actually slightly less accurate/suitable/yummy for MF than the one in the D800. Which is another let down as we both wanted the Df for use with our ‘retired’ MF lenses.

            • Bill Pahnelas

              f9 in the custom settings menu on a D800 lets one use the aperture on the lens rather than the wheel. i cannot believe this function would NOT be implemented on the Df as well…

            • silmasan

              There you go :) Can’t be bothered to check my cameras atm.

            • El Aura

              Nah, the Df is doing away with all that arcane functionality hidden deep in the menus. ;)

            • TheInconvenientRuth

              It probably is, but I did not have the time to look into this, I asked the rep and he wasn’t sure.

            • Thom Hogan

              As I understand it, it is. But it’s an either/or thing.

            • albin

              Really? I didn’t know that. Sounds very welcome. Thanks!

          • rosshj

            Reallllly… is that true?! No focus aid like this > • < that lights up when it's in focus for manual lenses. How are you supposed to focus it… by eye through the viewfinder?

            • NoMeJodas

              I think he means REAL focus aid like a focusing screen with microprism ring, at least as an option, or some kind of focus peeking and magnification etc. Those >*< are just silly IMO because you should be looking at your subject while focusing and not at the corner of the VF.

            • rosshj

              I would love that option. Do many DSLRs have that? Wonder how well it would work. I love using the good ‘ol split screen on my FE and FM3A.

            • rosshj

              Looks like Canon makes them for some of their higher end DSLRs http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/app/pdfs/quickguides/CDLC_FocusingScreens_QuickGuide.pdf

            • hexx

              you mean when camera thinks i’m in focus? no thank you, when i use manual focus i want to make sure i’m focused correctly

            • TheInconvenientRuth

              Of course it has ‘focus confirmation’ in the VF, but it is not accurate enough for very shallow DOF, wide open lenses like 105/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/1.2 etc.

          • R!

            Like all AF Nikon and Zeiss ZF2 lenses ,the AF cancel the mechanical aperture ,you can still put some tape on the contacts then It will work or buy Zeiss ZF .

        • usa

          Thanks. I suspect it is a very interesting piece of technology. I bet it gave the design team fits! I look forward to getting my big, grubby paws on one someday.

        • desmo

          you failed to find the aperature dial

          • bratvlad

            good one

          • TheInconvenientRuth

            No, you failed to read :)

        • Henri De Vreese

          The command dial for aperture is at the front…
          It’s the dial positioned right to the Df sign.

          • TheInconvenientRuth

            That’s what I said, use the front wheel.

      • Bob Loblaw

        ?????? The same way any other Nikon DSLR would work when you choose an automatic (P, S, A) mode. The dials on the Df just look different and are placed on top of the camera. It’s all the same except it “looks” and “feels” retro.

        I, personally, love the Df.

    • MrSkelter

      “…before they stop making them…” You really think this is going to be a blip that dies and Nikon regrets? After touching it and wanting it?

      With a body like this Nikon make it easy to change the innards and re-sell an updated body with the same look. I’d guess if this sells well at all Nikon will respond to buyers and move it in the direction people want.

      Nikon aren’t that big. They might have had limits to how much they could spend on development which they ran into. It’s very possible they want the things we do but need to be able to justify the investment their development would require.

      • umeshrw

        I guess that is why they have taken this innovative step of asking people(and not just users and pros) what they want. Though I doubt if they would listen to people asking for less price. :)

        • MrSkelter

          I hope they stay deaf to the people asking for cheap. Cheap is always at the expense of the camera. Much of the carping here is wishful thinking. “Why can’t I have a Df with a D800 sensor for $2K)” I.e. the where’s-my-D700 crowd.

          • umeshrw

            You are right there for those reasons. But in this case considering that only top bottom and back plates are metal (in order to give illusion of being full metal body ) can be called as chimping. Mind you I am not saying that it makes the body weak. Just that their claim and hence our thinking that part of Dfs high price was due to full metal body is false.

            • Andrew

              That full metal body looks pretty full to me though it may not meet your standards of an absolute armor. But as you alluded, the metal body is only a part of the overall pricing of the camera. But if you think about it, the Nikon Df is a full frame sensor camera so its $2,000 price range seems justified considering that it is constructed to the level (in terms of structural rigidity) of the D800. And the fact that it has the same sensor as is in the $6,000 D4 makes its pricing of $2,746.95 quite reasonable. I am not saying that its price is not high, just that it is justified in my opinion.

              It is likely that Nikon might take off at least $300 from its price in a years time bringing it down to only $2,446.96. I do feel that the sensor in the D600 is not on a high production run making it quite expensive and that is why the price of the Df is relatively high.

            • umeshrw

              The body level is at par with 600. Plates and not full metal like 800. Only weather sealing is at par with 800 which is same as 610 and slightly better than 7100. A sensor is an important price decider agreed . But body quality and features are more important in pricing a camera like D4 . Also now that D4 sensors are being used in Df means that production will increase which means ; the sensor price should decrease. Nikon will pass it on to us? I doubt.

      • desmo

        it won’t be a blip that dies,
        but,
        Nikon may only intend to make so many,
        thus ,
        snooze you lose,
        it will be highly collectable
        (an investment)
        but I didn’t say that

        • MrSkelter

          Wow. Is that sourced or guesswork? Quite a collectable…

          • desmo

            intuitive guess,
            it’s not a main stream product,
            it’s a fun product
            (both for nikon and their devotees)
            It could spawn multiple iterations,
            but probably only at appropriate times,
            and controlled qty’s
            Nikon anniversaries etc
            (made in japan means limited qty run)

            • desmo

              but could be totally wrong
              :)

            • MrSkelter

              I think it’ll either die – which is unlikely. Or sit in the niche it’s clearly designed for. With sufficient success Nikon could simply let it age as they did the D90 which chugged on for 5 years without a problem. It sold well till the end.

              It would also be easy to imagine it being upgraded with new-old internals to keep margins high. Instead of building D4 chips for it, simply change to a new sensor when the D4 is removed from the lineup after the Df has used the remaining supply.

              That would mean margins increase over time even if the price on the body comes down. Exactly in line with Nikon’s plans.

              That ability to fit new guts to the same body may explain why there are so many buttons, and why the mount is plastic. They obviously used a lot of metal in the body so why stop with the mount? The obvious answer is to that when they have a new mirror box and cup them can replace one plastic part, mold a new front in plastic, and retain all their old tooling. They could have Df’s in the same case for years that way. Very high margin especially with no pressure to add new features after they’ve established it’s “pure”.

              If they see there’s a good market for the Df’s interface, and if Canon follow them into the space, I can easily see a second line of bodies, all at a premium, with the guts of other bodies. The D800 sensor is a natural.

              Better for Nikon, they can make more on each D4/D5 buy buying more of the key component, using it in two bodies, lowering costs – and maintaining the price of the D4.

              This is pretty plausible. Sell the same amount of flagship bodies, but still profit from volume discounts, without eating into your professional sales thanks to deliberate limitations on the ‘new’ body.

              Sounds like a business case to me.

            • umeshrw

              Makes sense.

        • ronin

          I buy that.

          Like the Nikon FM3a. Overprice it, sell an “obsolete” design to a specific niche, and after one model iteration (and some limited production run), kill it.

          We’ve seen some other one-off boutique products from Nikon along those lines.

          • TheInconvenientRuth

            Yup, I still regret not buying a new 28Ti back then… what a beautiful piece that was…

  • Anthony Mateus

    Too expensive, gitchy. I’m over it.

  • Lee

    Probably will have to wait for PENTAX to create the really small FF DSLR. ;-) you just might have to wait forever.

    • desmo

      If it were to happen,
      I’d bet on Olympus.
      They were the ones to make a small 35mm SLR

      • FlightlessKakapo

        Olympus stepped too far into m4/3 standard. I doubt they can get out now.

        Ricoh is still using Pentax K mount and their first prototype DSLR was full frame. K3 is their current flagship, so that leaves room for K1 or K2. Pentax DSLRs used to be the smallest in their class, and the trend should continue with Ricoh.

        The biggest problem for Ricoh/Pentax is the lack of market share, and the smartphone and mirrorless revolution probably hit them hardest. Most of their sale is in entry level DSLRs and compact cameras, and they did not have the high profit pro market to help absorb the losses.

        The full frame Sony SLR didn’t do much good, so a small full frame Ricoh SLR may not be enough. Mirrorless market is already quite crowded. I would much rather see Ricoh take a brave step and scrap the GXR and Q, and then start a new modular mirrorless system based around the 645 format, with a 645 full frame flagship, a 44×33 mid range and a 35mm entry. Make adapters for existing 645 SLR and K mount lenses to make it easier for people to move in from existing systems. Finally price it the 433 and 35mm to compete with 1Dx/D4 and 5D/D800

  • Crackity Jones

    To be clear, that Amazon list is not the top-selling camera list. It is the “hot new releases” list, which ranks only recently introduced cameras.
    The Df first appears at #16 on the full list of best-selling cameras.

    • http://nikonrumors.com/ Nikon Rumors

      I just wanted to show that the silver models sells better than the black which is surprising to me. The Amazon top selling list doesn’t really tells us much – maybe it will after a month or two.

      • Pippo

        Not at all. I’ll buy silver. For my country first rumored price ~4500$ :P. As I earlier say, 2400 euros with some SD cards & battery be good to me.

        • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

          People with taste get silver!

      • http://www.davidkasman.com/ David Kasman

        The black doesn’t look especially “retro” IMO, it looks like a very sharp DSLR with a few dials on top. The Panda, on the other hand, screams retro, so that’s the more attractive option for buyers that are into that.

        • desmo

          also looks like”metal body”
          black looks plastic

          but
          I like black?

      • MrSkelter

        Panda is always going to be more popular with the public. It’s much more attractive to most eyes. Note that every Leica you see in a movie is panda too, though all the pros and wannabes favor black.

      • J. Dennis Thomas

        From what I was told, the silver was going to be available in higher quantities in the US market and the black was going to be the rarity.

      • Thom Hogan

        Nikon expects sliver to sell more. It’s their “hero” SKU for the product and is first on all the dealer order lists, which is a subtle cue to dealers to push it over black. This is a lot like happens with automobiles, where a maker believes that one color or style will sell more than another and sets their manufacturing levels that way.

        Historically, silver on black sold more than black, partly because all black was an extra cost option. So someone is much more likely to associate silver on black as the camera they used to have and all black as just another DSLR. I don’t think Nikon got this wrong, though I agree with you I like the black one better.

    • http://www.davidkasman.com/ David Kasman

      If the ranking was by gross sales, i.e. # of units x price, not simply the number of units sold, the Df would be right up there, if not #1. It will be interesting to see if demand continues.

      • ronin

        Since not a cent of revenue has been realized by Amazon, hence no units sold, not sure how it could be listed as a top seller.

        • Ken Elliott

          I believe you can pre-order. That could be considered a “sale”.

    • FlightlessKakapo

      That’s makes sense. I was wondering how did the Canon SX510 super zoom become the 3rd best selling camera.

  • twoomy

    If they ever slap the D800 sensor into this body, I would be all over it. Love my D800 for hiking, but I’d love for it to be lighter and smaller.

  • JohnK

    Tried the Df with a manual 50mm 1.4 yesterday at a NPS event, but it was not really possible to manual focus with the screen in the viewfinder. If you shoot with 2.8 glass or slower, then it’s not a problem. It would have been nice if you could have used the old fast ai nikkors with this camera.

    • desmo

      doesn’t make sense,
      if you couldn’t focus with f1.4 glass,
      why would F2.8 and slower give better sight picture in view finder?

      we need quantative info fro qualified people. :0
      just a thought

      • John

        The focus screens really only give you f/2.8. Try it yourself, put on a f/1.4 and stop down the lens as you adj. aperture. Basically you get f/2.8 depth of focus to f/1.4 so precise focus manually is tough wide open.

  • JR

    Check out the CameraStoreTV video on YouTube about the Nikon Df. ” Digital fusion? sounds like a restaurant “. The last part about video is pretty funny. Sorry I tried to do a link to it but was unable.

    • http://nikonrumors.com/ Nikon Rumors

      I added the video to the post. I already mentioned the “digital fusion” before the camera was announced. Some readers did not believe me.

  • Richard M

    The comment on the Df that starts “Built from magnesium alloy and with …” links to Amateur Photographer and not BJP (British Journal of Photography) as labelled. BJP has a short article at

    http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/2304913/nikon-aspires-to-create-a-future-classic-with-the-full-frame-df-retro-dslr

    • http://nikonrumors.com/ Nikon Rumors

      Fixed

  • temm

    What troubled me more is the Nikon DSLR range chart. No D300s, so that means no D400 and the end of the DX semi pro range?

    • desmo

      yup’
      learn to live with it
      :(
      not being mean,
      I’m a former D300s owner,
      just time to move on

      • temm

        I know, just delaying it as much as i can.

      • http://500px.com/BillFord-Smith BFS

        They almost got close with the D7100, but then some moron neutered the buffer…!

        :(

    • Thom Hogan

      Yeah, that chart was very interesting, because it includes bodies they don’t make any more, but not the D300s. It also seems to have no idea where to place the Df ;~).

  • Pieter Q

    I like the retro look of my old FE. What I fail to understand is the retro lens: why a G-version, where is my diaphragma ring? So much easier and intuitive than the dials on the camera.

    • Josh

      I agree. This camera was begging for changeable focus screens optimized for MF and line of new special edition MF only 28mm, 50mm, and 85mm 1.8 primes with an aperture ring. In fact this camera would actually be worth the price if it was MF ONLY and ONLY worked with MF lenses with aperture rings. At least then it would be different. Heck I might even want one if it was like that. As it is it is just a D610 in a retro shell with better support for old lenses almost no one cares about using anyway.

      • peteee363

        I do miss the old ring, and color gage to give me a glance at the depth of field. it was so easy to figure out where to focus for maximum effect. with the newer lenses, you almost need to make multiple shots, with multiple focus points.

    • Ken Elliott

      I’d prefer an aperture ring mounted on the body, right behind the mount. I like the old position, but I have to admit I’ve become fond of the front dial because I can change lenses and know the aperture didn’t change. A lens-mounted ring adds another variable to go wrong. Mounting the ring on the body behind the mount gives us both advantages and no disadvantage.

  • fjfjjj

    My survey comment: “This survey is a joke, because it only asks about the good features of the Df, not the bad ones: low-durability shutter, low-end AF module, flash-sync, incomplete Mg chassis, dumb control design, no video, absurd price. Nikon is abandoning serious prosumers. No Nikon DSLR is current line-up that I want to buy. Would purchase a D700/D800-style body with 16Mp or 24Mp sensor for $3k, but Nikon not listening. Df is overpriced luxury D600, cruel joke.”

    Feel free to copy-and-paste if you don’t know what else to say.

    • Josh

      “Df is overpriced luxury D600″

      That is the crux of the issue. If the Df was either full on retro with MF only making it more of small market item like a Leica M or had D800 level features the price would be understandable. But as it is it is just a D610 without video or dual card slots in a fancy shell.

      • Pete Grady

        Disagree. The sensor is better for many kinds of work than the one found in the D610.

        • joey jo jo

          how can the df can be a luxury d610 when it is using the companies flagship sensor?

          • joey jo jo

            * thats a comment on this whole convo not to you specifically pete

        • El Aura

          It’s better in some aspects and worse in others. The D4 sensor has a lower read noise (at high ISO) and because of that (and possibly some other small differences) it is a bit at really high ISO. However, at base ISO, the D600 sensor has lower read noise, ie, cleaner deep shadows. And all things equal, 24 MP gives you also data to work with.

          • Pete Grady

            But, they ARE larger files that can’t be processed as fast. Like I said, D4 sensor is better for MANY kinds of work.

            • J. Dennis Thomas

              Trying to argue with megapixel people is futile.

            • Ken Elliott

              Agreed. For me it’s simple – if you have a big printer, you need more pixels. Small (or no) printer – fewer pixels. People get hung up on numbers.

            • rosshj

              What if you want to crop into your photo a bit? 24mp gives you way more room to play with here. A lot of people will say “learn how to frame your shot better”, but how can you when there is let’s say a river between you and your subject?

            • Ken Elliott

              How big is your printer? You only need 8MP for a high quality 8×10. Since my post mentions pixels being tied to printers, and you didn’t mention what printer you use, are you getting hung up on numbers?

            • John

              Cross the river….

      • http://www.davidkasman.com/ David Kasman

        D4 sensor with a D4 processor that should take pictures that look exactly like a D4’s – for half the price of a D4.

        • joey jo jo

          spot on david, which makes it a long way from a d610

          • Ian Dangerzone

            except that the D610 sensor is fantastic and takes stupendous images.

            • Aldo

              d800 is awesome as well.. but it’s not a d4

      • Seki Ryunosuke

        Agree. Mr. Goto, the mastermind of the Df, is somewhat mistaken on the trend. It might have been fine in 2009 when the idea began, but “the smallest and lightest FX-format body” sounds like empty given much more options available on the market now.

        • http://nikonrumors.com/ Nikon Rumors

          They did confirm that they delayed the Df because of the earthquake. This was going to be a big deal if it came 1-2 years ago.

          • Thom Hogan

            That also implies that the D600 was delayed ;~).

      • Aldo

        Comparing the d600 to the Df is like comparing the d800 to the D4.

    • rhlpetrus

      It’s not a joke if you can fill in your thoughts.

  • Crackity Jones

    Someone in Washington, DC claims to have one in hand and available for the low, low price of $5,000.

    http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/pho/4174731387.html

    • Pete Grady

      send them your money and let us know what happens

    • http://nikonrumors.com/ Nikon Rumors

      scam

  • fjfjjj

    Nikon took 4.5 years from Nikon Df concept to announcement. How long did it take Fujifilm to go from the X100 quasi-prototype to a full line of awesome classic cameras?

    • Global

      I think this is the LAST time they can ever mention the “tsunami” in their marketing excuses. Its a damn tragedy and nothing about it was right; but Nikon has milked it, and they are going too far with that explanation.

      If Nikon comes out and says the “D400″ was “delayed due to tsunami” it will be too shameful to bear hearing.

      • desmo

        they won’t
        don’t expect D400
        and,
        japanese
        never make excuses

        • TheInconvenientRuth

          So… no excuses for not giving us a D400.

          • Andrew

            It (D400) is coming with a big fat 36 MP sensor borrowed from the D800 – so you will get one in full FX glory! It will also sport the EXPEED 4 image processor and will be priced at $1796.95. It will do with the D800 sensor what the Df did with the D4 sensor.

            The D7200 will move up as the true D300 replacement and will cost $1,396.95. It will sport a larger buffer.

            Both the D400 and D7200 will handle video at 1080p @ 60 fps and the IQ (Image Quality) will be stunning!

            • desmo

              would a D800 sensor in a D400 body not be a
              D800?

      • One More Thought

        I don’t think any of us are qualified to criticize the Japanese for their response to the tsunami. As someone else mentioned, the Japanese do not make excuses.

        I think Nikon did a tremendous job maintaining its corporate viability in the face of such a huge disaster. I wonder how many of us could have done better, either personally or professionally?

        It’s quite frankly a disgrace to insult the Japanse regarding the tsunami.

        • Seki Ryunosuke

          You are mistaken A LOT. The Japanese DO make excuses so often. Think about Tokyo Electric Power. Everyday, they keep excusing why they can’t end the mess in Fukushima.

      • TheInconvenientRuth

        I covered this and let me tell you, the TV footage you may have seen does not even begin to describe the devastation on the ground. Before you start critizising the Japanese, you may want to consider that the US still have not recovered from Hurricane Katrina in 2005… And that event in the US led to widespread violence, rioting and looting. Meanwhile, in Japan, the elderly volunteered to expose themselves to radiation to clean up Fukushima because they reckoned they would die of age before the effects of radiation would harm them anyway…

    • El Aura

      You are assuming that the X-1 Pro development only started with the release of the X-100. If you consider that the Df development started several years before the release of the D600 (on which the Df is based), it would seem normal to assume that the X-1 Pro development also started significantly earlier than the release of the X-100.

      • fjfjjj

        There’s much evidence that the X100 was intended as a niche one-off or market experiment, with no invested plan to turn it into a full product line. Speculation aside, the agility vs sluggishness of Fujifilm vs Nikon is rather typical of new market entrants with large assets vs big-brand players clinging to their market segment with a long history of aversion to change.

        • El Aura

          When companies say development started x years ago that doesn’t mean they decided x years ago what camera to build. It means they had an idea for a product and started the brainstorming and discussion then. It doesn’t even mean they had the strong intention to certainly build it. It starts with trying to come up with the basic characteristics and start testing some aspects. In that sense, developing the X100 was to a significant degree undistinguishable from developing the X1-Pro.

    • Seki Ryunosuke

      Don’t worry. Every year, you hear “Pentax FF is coming this year”, but in vain. Be patient.

    • One More Thought

      I wouldn’t quite say that Fuji has a full line of “awesome classic cameras.”

      I give Fuji credit for trying something different in an attempt to dislodge the market leaders, and in many ways they have created a very viable and interesting product line.

      But they have their flaws. For instace, I would bet that this Nikon with its much maligned AF will outperform any of the Fuji’s in AF.

      As an aside, I’ve tried some of the Fuji’s and again, fine cameras, but to me they feel a bit cheap and hollow.

    • Thom Hogan

      Almost as long, actually. Folk that designed the S series DSLRs at Fujifilm moved to pet projects, one of which was the X100, another of which was what became the X-Pro1. They had considerable time into it when they showed it at Photokina 2010 to gauge interest.

  • dclivejazz

    I’ve tried uploading the the survey 3 or 4 times now and keep getting an error message to answer question 9 about the number of lens you own, even though I have answered it. Anybody else having a similar issue?

    • saywhatuwill

      You need to choose none for the ones you don’t have. So, you may have manual lenses and FX lenses, but no DX or others.

      • dclivejazz

        Thanks. That’s was it exactly.

  • MB

    And for people whose fathers have even more than just an advice on how to find ones passion currently in development new and vastly more expensive special edition with equally useless but gold plated plastic lens ring:

    http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/l1ha6.jpg

    • Global

      Finally! Something to match my Gold-ring lenses!

      And good riddance to video. I hope this doesn’t an LCD screen and can only take 50 pictures, max, I want it to be totally retro. More capabilities just get in the way.

    • photoroto

      That will look so good with my plaid leisure suit.

    • fjfjjj

      Is that Ashton Kutcher skin?

  • Roberto J

    it is an option to the success of the Nikon Fuji xpro-1: opportunism.

    On another side the Nikon continues without a camera to face canon MK3e and even meet the orphans d700 owners.

    • desmo

      1Dmk3 was canon’s weakest offering,
      1Dx is nice though

      but if your talking 5dmk3
      (not a bad camera)
      than D800 more than covers it,
      and D600 crowds it
      (at least)

  • saywhatuwill

    In the past Nikon prided itself on listening to feedback from customers. We’ll see if the current survey helps. I remember the last survey I took a couple years ago and I said I wanted a camera the size of a FE and 16MP was fine (not 24 or more). They got close, but the lack of a good focusing screen basically messed up this camera.

  • Sashimi

    I think the questionnaire lacks the following answer propositions :
    “- I could be interested, but it is too damn expensive”,
    “- I am not interested and would strongly suggest you fire your autistic japanese marketing teams”

  • Radek

    I still wonder how do D-lenses work on this body. Can one use aperture ring on the lens to set aperture? Or do they work as on other digital bodies (via dial only)?

    Thanks, R>

    • nikonzall

      I know, You can change the Aperture using aperture ring of D-lenses on D800 and D600. You have to set the menu to do so but you can, D800 f9 , D600 f5. I am assuming that you can do the same with Df since it is based on D600 internals but not sure.

  • broxibear

    Another video hands on, I’m Dfed out now, lol…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JokHDKECffE

    • http://nikonrumors.com/ Nikon Rumors

      How did this guy get the camera in his house?

      • broxibear

        He bought it off that guy on craigslist, lol.

        • http://nikonrumors.com/ Nikon Rumors

          lol!

  • Aldo

    This camera is so sexy … I must look away before I pull out my wallet…

  • Saffron Blaze

    Can’t get past that D800 pricing for a repackaged and somewhat crippled D600.

    • Aldo

      crippled? nah

  • scott800

    I hope that they would have introduced a cool new pancake lens for retro compactness.

    • Global

      A 30mm pancake f/2 would be been awesome!

      Why did they just put a ring around Nikon’s cheapest FX lens and raise the price almost to the cost of an f/1.4 lens? It makes no sense at all. The IRONY for Nikon, I think — is that this could have been a product that their base (a wide base) fell in love with.

      Instead, they cynically focused on margins and a very weird video-hating, technophobic niche. Truly bizarre.

      Get it right next time, Nikon. We’re not all grey beards.

      • Sahaja

        If you want a pancake, you can get the F mount Voigtlander 28mm f/2.8 Color Skopar SL II

  • Glambike

    Just get a D600 for $1,500 or so. I paid $1,499 and I bought a New Leaf 3 year plan just in case. The shutter numbering started at zero. Maybe the Referb had a new shutter. I like new shutters. The specs of the DF are that of a video-less, lower res, D600. Why isn’t anyone commenting on the possibility of oil and dust?

    • Aldo

      The chances of oil and dust are pretty slim considering nikon had to re badge the d600 because of it.

  • RARTE

    @Admin

    pls remove the Youtube Video from “HardwareZone SG”

    They are so stupid. They complain about the lack of ISO changing on menuscreen.

    Theres a manual ISO Dial on top of the cam.

    So if Nikon make it changable in the Menu there would be a discrepancy

    in ISO …

    • Yoshi Spendiff

      Haha, that is a stupid thing to say.

    • kotozafy

      Hahahaha !! ISO changing on menuscreen ? Why not have aperture and shutter speed setting on menuscreen too ?

  • Paul

    I don’t see myself buying this camera. I wish they had updated the D300 or D800.

    It seems like a camera for a small market.

    • Sahaja

      It’s much too soon to update the D800

      • Drazen B

        It’s much too soon to downgrade the D800

        There ya go mate, I fixed it for ya…;-)

      • Paul

        They have already updated the D600 and it came out after the D800. From reviews I have seen there is room for improvement on the D800

  • One More Thought

    Here’s something funny: many criticize this Nikon Df for having a second rate AF module. I disagree, I think the 39 pt AF is pretty darned good.

    But regardless, many of those criticizing the AF on this camera then write about how great the Sony A7 is, or the Fuji X series is, etc. Those all have AF systems that are lacking, and would pit this Nikon AF against those any day of the week.

    • Aldo

      I’ve said this a few times… It’s not that the 39 point system is bad… it’s just that nikon holds the better system deliberately to “nerf” the camera on purpose. I think this is why people complain.

      • One More Thought

        What evidence do we have that Nikon deliberately “nerved” the camera on purpose? That’s just a cynical conclusion.

        We don’t know what engineering tradeoffs it would have taken to include the 51 pt AF.

        • Aldo

          Well by saying that you are implying that in someway this 39 point (packed in the center) system could be better than the 51 point system found on the d4 or d800. And that there are advantages of the 39pt system (from an engineering perspective) that makes it ideal for the Df over the 51pt. I would like to know the “trade offs” you speak of because as far as I know, there are none.

          • Degsy

            The only trade off is the then proximity to the D4

            • T53

              The absence of the 51pt system and a second card slot kept the camera on the store shelf in my case.

            • jborg

              As far as I understood the second card slot is mostly useful when the camera has video capability, so as to provide larger storage demanded by video. The D700, for example, has just one CF slot but I never felt the need for a second one. Nowadays SD (XD) cards are available in sizes unconceivable only three years ago…

            • T53

              The second card is a must have in my case because twice I have suffered card failure in a camera and lost images. It happens and if you make your living using these machines, you cannot take the chance. Still the df is tugging at my sleeve and I’ll probably cave once the refurbs show up.

            • Mike

              I agree but there are work arounds. 1. Buy several 8 or 16gb cards and shoot RAW + JPEG to one. But rotate often. 2. Buy name brands. The only cards to have failed on me are Transcend. I swear by SanDisk. 3. Hoodman has a card set up as a RAID. It’s a 64 GB card but actually partitioned to 2x32GB folders.

              Most wedding photogs have in their contract a clause where they are not responsible for equipment failure. That said, D700s are still rampantly used for weddings and they have gotten by for 4+ years with 1 card.

            • T53

              Duly noted but I stand by my comment. BTW, I’m not a wedding photographer.

            • T53

              The second card is a must have in my case because twice I have suffered card failure in a camera and lost images. It happens and if you make your living using these machines, you cannot take the chance. Still the df is tugging at my sleeve and I’ll probably cave once the refurbs show up.

            • John

              I was pissed when I bought a film camera and it only had space for one roll of film… wtf?

            • http://www.davidkasman.com/ David Kasman

              The pros want it for redundancy and peace of mind. Try telling the bride that you missed the wedding kiss shot at the church because your SD card failed. :(

            • Degsy

              Agree.You just couldn’t take the risk

          • http://www.davidkasman.com/ David Kasman

            Suppose Nikon was making their decision on which focus system to use in the Df just as the D800’s left focus issues were making news? Suppose the 51 pt wouldn’t fit in the smaller Df body? Suppose the 51 pt uses more power and they were concerned about battery life? Suppose it costs a little more and they wanted to keep the Df’s price, with lens, under $3k? Who knows?

            To me, the lack of any video is the biggest “flaw”, because if you go out taking pictures, say on a trip, and you want the option of video, then you need a whole second camera … and the D4 sensor is perfect for video where sensitivity is key and resolution is limited by video standards anyway.

            But this is what Nikon decided, at least for the first Df. We can all decide to take it or leave it ourselves. Every camera is a compromise :)

            • Aldo

              I have a feeling the compromise is intended though…

        • Global

          That’s ridiculous, OneMoreThought.

          Its quite obvious they intended not to put the 51-pt system in there. Why are you being apologetic for Nikon crippling our gear, when it would have cost nothing (certainly not anywhere near the extra $1,000 this thing costs over the D610) to put it in the camera.

          You’re doing a real disservice to the Nikon community.

          • Aldo

            not crippling… but holding it back deliberately with no reasonable explanation… d700 has 51 points ffs.

            • Global

              Crippling doesn’t mean something “doesn’t exist”, it can also mean it exists to a “lesser level” than it otherwise could have. They crippled this product.

            • Aldo

              In my perspective “crippling” implies (for example) that by not including the 51 point system you can’t use this camera professionally. I think what sort of “cripples” the camera for today professional standards, is the exclusion of a secondary card slot, but not the focusing system, which is still a lot better than some found in other brands as mentioned above.

            • iamlucky13

              “In my perspective “crippling” implies (for example) that by not
              including the 51 point system you can’t use this camera professionally.”

              But that’s not true at all. Certainly the 51 point system is better, especially for its lower light capability, and if anyone is going to be limited by the difference, a professional would, but that is a vastly different statement from saying the camera can’t be used professionally.

              And this type of crippling is done all the time, by nearly every industry out there. Another camera example is the elimination of bracketing from the lower end bodies. That’s purely a firmware change, so there’s effectively no cost to leaving it out, but they do so because they want users who understand bracketing to have an additional reason to purchase a higher level body. A non-camera example are the different versions of software. After Microsoft went through all the trouble developing Windows 7 ultimate, they spent additional costs defeaturing it to produce the lower level versions.

            • iamlucky13

              What do you consider a reasonable explanation?

              Clearly, they wanted to maintain that feature as an upsell in other bodies. Seems obvious to me.

              Which isn’t a huge surprise considering multi-point AF systems are oriented towards tracking action, but the Df isn’t not really laid out as an action camera.

              Having said that, I more or less agree with Thom Hogan – the overall product lineup is a bit confused.

              It would have made more sense to stick the 36 MP sensor in this body, and the low-light sensor in the D800’s body.

            • Aldo

              Some argue that they withheld the 51 point system to maintain a smaller size… I’d call that a reasonable explanation… if it were only true. If what you say it’s true (which is what I think also), then the deliberate lack of features is simply a slap in the face to the consumer… an expensive slap in the case of the Df.

  • One More Thought

    I remember when the D800 was released there was all sorts of complaining about it being too many megapixels, not being a true successor to the D700, etc.

    In fact, ironically many people complained that the D800 did not use the same sensor as the D4, and had video. Now we have a smaller, lighter camera that does use the D4, and doesn’t bother with video…and we get complaints.

    People will complain about anything it seems.

    Myself, I am still making up my mind re this camera, but some of the criticism is over the top. It seems the people who have actually held one and been able to try it out like the camera.

    Interestingly, all of the controversy will probably only fuel sales. The worst thing for any product is to launch and be overlooked and ignored. This camera will definitely not have that problem.

    • Mike

      Indeed. Half of the top topics on DPR are about the Df. The first impression comments garnered over 1000 comments on the camera. Good, bad or indifferent, it’s getting a lot of attention. The Pentax K3, arguably a D400 in Pentax clothing has been all but forgotten about. The Sony a7 & a7r are only being talked about in the vein of how it compares to the Df. Canon guys are grasping at straws saying the 6D is a retro camera.

      Thom Hogan reports that Df pre-orders have exceeded D600 pre-orders from a year ago. Haters will hate and comment the most about how much they don’t like it. But sales figures will show how many people like it.

      I’m waiting to here about the metering. It has a D4 sensor, but D3s/700 2000 pixel metering. The D800 with its 91,000 pixel metering, I find, is much better at attaining accurate WB and scene specific exposures than my D3s.

      Controversy is not all bad. I live just outside Toronto, and I have a feeling tourism will spike because of “our” crack smoking mayor. :-)

      • Mike

        Edit: By “here” I mean “hear”

      • El Aura

        It has the same metering as the D600. Basically everything but the top plate with its controls and the sensor is a D600. There are some minor changes, like adding the AF-On button from the D800 and leaving out the video setting on the LV button.

  • One More Thought

    One other line of thought I see frequently in these discussions is that Nikon somehow doesn’t want to create another D700, as if that was a mistake that Nikon regrets. What is meant is that Nikon doesn’t want to put the D4 sensor in a smaller body with the same AF and otherwise very similar features.

    But why not? The D4 is meant for pro’s and mainly purchased by them. The ones that need a D4 already have a D4. And most of these pro’s need the higher fps that a D4 would have over a mini D4.

    If Nikon felt that it made the most sense to release a min D4…ie a true D700 successor, they would do it.

    Instead, Nikon released the D800, and most are glad that they did that instead of the mini D4. The D800 is widely regarded as a great dslr and has sold well. Glad Nikon didn’t listen to those wanting a mini D4.

    They then released a D600…now D610, which is smaller and in most ways a far superior camera to the D700.

    So Nikon offers consumers a superb choice of cameras. The D800 and D600 are superior to the D700 at comparable or lower prices. Now you have the Df which offers other advantages over the D700.

    I even remember that when the D700 was released many criticized it for its high ISO spec. Some said it was intentionally crippled so as not to compete against the D3.

    Same as it ever was.

    • Aldo

      I’m glad they released a d800 instead of a mini d4 too… but the fact that they did what they did with the Df is better for them… not for us… this is the point you are missing. They downgraded the specs of the Df for their own benefit… not because they created an engineering marble like you presume.

  • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

    Ralf has his early review up, it’s in German, but I’ll try to translate the conclusion.

    http://www.ralfs-foto-bude.de/neuheiten/spiegelreflexkameras/nikon-df

    “The Df polarises option, no question. And that’s good. We need more cameras that polarise – cameras that won’t be bought by everyone, but those that do know why it fits. He who buys this knows that it can’t film, knows that it doesn’t have scene modes or other toys. And he knows how to use the right settings. Any anyone who doesn’t want that? Then take a D610, save a couple Euros and get a great camera with all other the stuff.

    Beside the logical decision is also the emotional factor. You can’t underestimate that. A camera isn’t only a technical object, but also something to inspire and have fun with. That “I love photography” feeling has to be there to get the best images. And when you have the Df in your hand, that’s exactly the feeling you get. Immediately after that is when you should make your purchasing decision.”

    • Aldo

      sounds like he writes a lot but says little.

      • Yoshi Spendiff

        He said everyone needs a polarising filter! Okay so not in those words…

  • Karol Srnec
    • Drazen B

      Thanks for sharing. That compulsory left hand ISO and exp comp adjustment will take some time getting used to.

      Is the strap middle made of real or faux leather?

      • Karol Srnec

        This strap is from textil. Leather strap is sold separately.

        • Drazen B

          Cool , thanks.

    • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

      Thanks. By the way, I really like the style in which you shot. Smallish depth of field and exposure and white balance bang on.

      May I ask what you shot it on?

      • Karol Srnec

        Nikon D800E, Nikon AF-S 50/1,4G, Nikon AF-S 85/1,4G.

        • Lubos

          a prvni dojem? vypada to na solidni fotak. delal jsi nejaky to foto?

  • intro

    So disappointed with this camera,could have been great,reason?…why didn’t they use the new exspeed 4 sensor instead of the older exspeed 3?Even the much lower priced D5300 has the new exspeed 4 sensor.Also why did they not use the 51 point AF points as on the D4 instead of using the older 39 AF points of the d7000?…THIS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM!!…and for £2700 i would expect that at the very least…

    • Drazen B

      Expeed 3 is just fine.
      Also, don’t forget they started designing this camera 4 years ago, back then Expeed 4 was just a design sketch.

      • intro

        yeah that’s a fair comment,but would have liked the d4 51 af in it…

        • intro

          I have the d600,for me i’m not so keen on all the points so crowded together,well just think the 51 point would suit full frame better

          • Drazen B

            I don’t blame you. I happen to own d800, so little spoiled when it comes to a large 51-segment AF.

  • Markus

    Question Concerning:”Nikon Df has a magnesium-alloy body frame only on the top, back and bottom” – the second picture of the frame above (through the back) shows at least a metal frame around the bajonett – correct?

    • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

      Looks that way to me too. The mount is metal in any case, but there seems to be some reinforcement of the plastic frame around the mount.

      • OttoVonSchriek

        The lens mount is fixed to the shutter box, the sensor will be fixed to the rear side of this, the AF units will be on the floor, the matte focussing screen to the top.

        This ensures they are all held rigidly in place with respect to one another. The mag alloy chassis the surrounds the rest of the camera will be attached to the shutter box via the black metal plate we can see in the images that is between the lens mount and the shutter box.

        This will certainly be a very rigid metal such as a specialist steel or titanium.

        If you imagine holding the camera body with a heavy lens, there will inevitably be some flex, even if only tiny, in the chassis, but this will not affect the position of the shutter box relative to the lens, (This is pretty common DSLR construction).

        The apparently metal plate which covers the lens mount may well not be metal, it is only a cover with no structural function( indeed must be designed to not be structural, or it would confound the aforementioned logic), and metal would not be the best material…a high quality light but durable plastic would be more appropriate.

        • http://Flickr.com/inthemist InTheMist

          Thanks for the thorough reply!

        • Markus

          Thank you Otto for the infomative reply

  • shangoli

    Tell us about D 400,admin!Not this pet peeve!

  • 2cents

    Oh, wow! I didn’t know Nikon had their own Moleskine notebook.

  • Danonino

    I just wish Nikon could buy the Olympus Jpeg-engine.. I thought all the talk of Oly jpegs was bull, until I bought one for traveling light. The jpegs are amazing! Even the blown highlights good.

  • smac

    You know I , along with a lot of people it seems, have a problem with the price of this model. Nikon can’t even properly place it their product range. I can’t help feeling that at conception the Df was never meant to be positioned where it is. Spec wise it probably should have sat below the D610 as a budget FF . I mean, really, what’s the difference in cost likely to be between the D4 and D610 sensor?

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