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Thailand flooding reaches Nikon’s factories

Nikon factory in Thailand (credit: noppatjak)

I already mentioned about the flooding threat for Nikon factories in Thailand over the weekend. Today Bloomberg reported that Nikon's factories are "swamped":

"The deluge swept across the country starting in late July, killing 269 people, swamping factories operated by Honda Motor Co., Nikon Corp. and Canon Inc. and damaging more than 10 percent of rice farms in the biggest exporter of the grain."

This natural disaster may not be as big as the earthquake in Sendai, but will probably cause some further delay on Nikon products, especially entry level DSLRs that are produced in Thailand.

Image source

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  • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

    Dang. Nikon can’t catch a break.

    • Bikinchris

      “Ron Adair
      Posted October 10, 2011 at 10:48 pm | Permalink
      Dang. Nikon can’t catch a break.”

      +1

    • http://eleventhphotograph.com elph

      Exactly what I was thinking. I feel bad for them.

    • tigrebleu74

      After a natural disaster (earthquake) and the other that followed, (tsunami), plus a non-natural disaster resulting from the previous (Fukushima nuclear incident), Nikon is now suffering from the effects from another natural disaster (flooding)… although this one may be partially the result of human activity (global warming).

      After the Japanese, it’s the Thai people’s turn to suffer. Thailand already had gone through its fair share of another natural disaster a few years ago (the December 2004 tsunami). And now this… :(

      What’s next for the region? A volcano eruption? A meteorite?

      C’mon, Mother Nature… Give these people (and Nikon) a break!

      • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

        Blaming a natural phenomenon (one that’s happened for millions of years) on global warming seems about as silly as saying God is cursing the Thai people, or George Bush made it happen because he hates Asians.

        This isn’t a topic that should even be brought up on NR, as has been previously stated by Admin.

        That said, I agree that Nikon could really catch a break by Mother Nature.

        • pethunia

          Come up with all the silly comparisons as much as you like, Ron. But you are the one feeling alerted by the mention of ‘global warming’ in combination with the suggestion that it is caused by humans.
          And immediately requesting NR to be alert too is not an elegant thing to do.

          • A Thought

            +100

          • 2nd thought

            +100

          • johnM

            I agree with Pethunia.

            Specialy after Ron only cares about a Big corporation catching a break and not about the millions of people who have been flooded and have lost most of their belongings.
            “Dang. Nikon can’t catch a break.”

            • JonMcG

              Silly assumption, this is a Nikon focused website. Saying he only cares about some “big corporation” is akin to saying the guy leading off the second page of these comments only cares about D800’s and not people.. lame…

            • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

              Thanks, JonMcG.

              Assumptions like johnM’s are the reason we get tangled in silly discussions like these in the first place. People will believe anything these days, especially when it’s accompanied by the sound of their own voice.

          • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

            @pethunia

            We obviously disagree on the topic of global warming global cooling climate change. But Admin has made it perfectly clear that this is not a topic to be brought up here, since previous conversations have culminated in name calling and unrelenting bashing.

            The point is that in order to keep things civil around here, Admin has requested that we stay on topic, and avoid discussing our political or philosophical agendas.

            • pethunia

              Ron, this is definately an elegant response. I have seen some of the past discussions regarding the subject. I just found that you jumped rather too pro-actively on the subject, thereby politicising (sp.?) the subject on your own account..

            • hutone

              Admin can delete those name calling responses as he please. I’m sure he doesn’t need your sucking up.

              Because you are oh so civil with all of your responses Ron. laughs..

            • http://AdairCreativeGroup.com Ron Adair

              I ardently disagree with the very idea of this unproven science being taken as actionable fact. There is no secret there.

              My response is pointed for a reason: these discussions do nothing to help those wanting to learn more about Nikons, Rumors, or Nikon Rumors.

              Not only has Admin made it clear that these discussions are not welcome here, but so have dozens of readers.

              @hutone: More to the point, if I cannot engage in these debates here (which I accept), I expect the other side to abide by the same standards. And yes, I will take part in enforcing these standards, just as any healthy community or group will do. Even with drive-by propagandistic comments.

    • The invisible man

      OMG.
      Good thing the pro lenses are weather sealed.

  • Mark J.

    Thankfully no FX stuff is produced in Thailand, i would snap at this point if we had another FX delay due to natural disasters.

    • Anonymous

      Darn, these people are merciless. Hundreds of human have perished, and tens of thousands have lost their homes, and this pathetic creature is happy that no FX camera productions are not harmed!!!

      • Bip

        +1

      • D5100 user

        +1

      • Ben

        +1

      • tyler durden

        +1

        • Torben n.

          I agree with Mark, thank god no FX stuff got damaged.

          • ennan

            I too am glad that no FX cameras are produced at this plant – that is in no way meant to undermine what these poor people are going through and human life is far more important than any camera, but that doesn’t mean my interest in the FX line has to just disappear just because they are suffering. There’s room enough for both viewpoints.

            Feel sorry for the people who are suffering, sorry for Nikon and sorry that the knock on effect this will have for the photographic community.

    • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

      Sounds pretty darn immature. I’ll openly admit I was relieved when I realized that FX cameras aren’t being produced there, as much for Nikon’s sake as my own. However, there’s a way to communicate this appropriately, especially when human lives are at stake. NR readers are (for the most part) very decent people. Might I recommend a bit of decorum in these issues?

      • Jesus_sti

        We are on Nion rumors here, so we normaly talk about camera. If people want to talk about human misery I’m sure that some internet site are great for that …. People are trying to make short and fast topic not to save the world… by tha way I’m sorry for the little boy in philipine for gave me fruit loops this moorning … God job boy (hey by the way -> sarcarsm)

        • http://AdairCreativeGroup.com Ron Adair

          Eschewing human decency in order to make a joke, or to express one’s relief that their myopic lives won’t be affected by the suffering and death of others isn’t terribly classy, nor is it a sign of how busy people are, hence not able to make a thoughtful contribution to the conversation.

          Separating our humanity from our ideals can only lead to one eventuality, and history tells us it isn’t a pretty one.

          My upbringing was accompanied by a phrase: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” I’m not sure I’d want to hear/read belittling and denigrating comments from folks wealthier than myself if I had just lost my home, my possessions, my family, or my friends.

          Would you?

      • hutone

        I agree. I hope Nikon starts using child labor so we can get Fx cameras on the cheap.

        Really though.. who cares about the people. It’s the product that we want at any cost (as long as it’s cheap).

    • Green Pattern

      -1

  • Monkey Nigh Mow

    Yeh, hope that all the D800s are in waterproof cases.

  • Malaysian

    Will this cause the d800 delay again ??

    • BongoBongo

      Not if Nikon got the weather sealing of the D800 right.

  • texajoe

    Shouldn’t delay the annoumcement or delivery. It would just be in very limited supply.

  • kyoshinikon

    Look on the bright side. Fx is easier to make than coolcraps now…

  • Barakul

    I heard they are moving their factories to Tibet where there is no flood or earthquakes.

    • http://www.zinchuk.ca Zinchuk

      Just abominable snowmen? Yeti?

      • HornyPony

        thats where willy wonka got his oompa loompa…

        • IanZ28

          Don’t forget Nepal is the native home of the Cheshire Cat.

    • anon

      I hope they move their factories to detroit. not very many environmental disasters there, and the people are so poor that they are willing to work for next to nothing…

      (can you tell I’m a detroiter?)

      • http://Www.eltonsaulsberry.com Elton

        After the first few years they’d demand to retire at 48 with full pension and 100% paid fee-for-service Blue Cross. No one in their right mind would open a factory in Michigan.

        (Can you tell I’m an ex-Detroiter?)

        • JonMcG

          +1

      • Bozo

        double whammy is when the two holes of your nose are stuffed with two big rubber sticks.

        • IanZ28

          You forgot about the triple whammy!

          Don’t think I need to mention that third stick…..

          • mart

            and it’s a girl.. quadruple whammy

      • Andrew

        You are offensive. You do not belong here – nor among civilized people. Admin – please delete this thread!!!

        • http://nikonrumors.com/ [NR] admin

          deleted comment, no racist comments here please

          • http://www.robertash.com Robert Ash

            Admin,

            Thank you. Honestly, it would be worth deleting some of the callous and foolish comments made here belittling and/or trivializing the human cost of that tragedy on the people in Thailand (or in Africa or anywhere else, for that matter). If it were them or anyone they cared about who was facing this tragedy personally they’d sing a completely, completely different tune.

          • Wow

            Admin, you deleted my comment just because some douche-bag had asked you to? Can you tell me exactly what was racist in that comment, since absolutely no references to any race had been made??? One might suggest that you are the racist for thinking that the worthless and undesirable individuals described in my comment had to be black (I wonder why?), but there’s a difference between reading this in someone’s writing and just assuming that this is what they had in mind.
            I still can’t believe that you’d delete a comment just because there was a random request for it. You’ve turned into such a crowd-pleaser over the last few years that it’s pathetic.

            I’m deeply disappointed in you Admin, you broke my heart…

            • http://nikonrumors.com/ [NR] admin

              Didn’t you say in your comment you are a racist?

    • tigrebleu74

      With global warming, I expect the snow from the Himalaya to melt within the next few years, resulting in flooding as well. No place is safe.

      :|

    • Phil

      What makes you think there are no earthquakes in Tibet?

    • Sahaja

      Actually earthquakes in the Himalayas are common. There was a pretty serious one in Sikkim on the Tibetan border less than a month ago – it killed seven people in Tibet.

      Last year there was a bad earthquake in Yushu that killed thousands of people. Yushu is not in the TAR, but was part of Tibet and the people who live there are Tibetans

      The 2008 Sichuan earthquake was also right on the border of the Tibetan area of Sichuan.

      So many earthquakes in China are actually in Tibet

  • Pierre

    Talk about badluck, Nikon has something going on with Poseidon…

  • Dodol

    The D800 are safe because they are on the second floor.

  • Yusuf

    Somebody appease the god of camera….they are not handing over the D800 and D4.

  • Been there guy

    Nikon should do the release tomorrow. We need those D800 now, so we can use them to report the flood with amazing 36MP news photos, no details would be missed.

  • http://blog.nauphotos.com nau

    Do they make AW100 there ? would be a good test :)

    • preston

      lol

  • Mark

    Poor, Nikon. First Japan. I presume they moved some of their operations to Thailand as a result. And then this. I hope they take heart in knowing that they produce great photographic equipment and that public confidence in Nikon will remain solid throughout this episode.

    • http://www.eaglewheel.us bikinchris

      They were already in Thailand producing DX cameras and lenses, The Malaysian plant was fitted to also produce FX bodies.

      • Sahaja

        Who knows after the tsunami in Japan some parts for FX cameras may be produced in Thailand.

        Don’t FX and DX cameras have some parts in common anyway?

  • tom

    F…k !!! so Nikon D800 available in 2013,sorry people you have to use your old equipment on Euro 2012 and Olympics in London I thing you can photograph with your phones as well…. :-)

  • tom

    …or sorry people new nikon dslr’s prices are gone up for about 25% because of that….. :-) :-)

  • KT

    Same thing happened to Sony and they are delaying the release of the just announced alpha 77 and 65. If it’s not one thing, it’s the other. Amazing they still remain a profitable company in spite of all they have been through. Imagine if this was GM or Ford.

    • danny stewart

      :) GM and Ford didn’t need a disaster.. they had their management..
      Ford is much better though.. the EU div. helped them out a lot. Soon we can get good/quality Ford in the US too :)

      • IanZ28

        Or better yet buy a toyota…..them things run forever.

  • DX2FX

    Of course, Nikon could still announce their D800, D400, new DX lenses…, only supply will be difficult to meet demand in the months to come..

  • danny stewart

    They moved due to a natural disaster – at least I think that was the main reason.
    How on Earth a smart company, with a smart management, from a well known smart nation would place their new factory/ies to a place which is tend get flooded.
    They moved because the water and never thought of actually doing some research?
    If my factory gets under water the next location will be high and dry.

    • GeniusClub

      well…the thailand factory been there since forever…..the new one since Sendai earthquake is in Malaysia.

  • NKOTBSB

    They have bad risk management…. putting their factories on the cheapest ground available….

    • Discontinued

      I agree on the risk management. But it is not only the cheapest ground …
      Wether this makes the management look any better is another question of course.

    • Apooo

      It may be the “cheapest ground” and cheap labour for that matter, but how much more do you really want to pay for your next camera body?

  • RossGeller

    What a pickle !!

  • Ball_Lightning

    I still hope to wake up from an evil dream…

  • Michael

    I am more concerned about the Thailand people. They lost 10% of their rice fields. And of course a lot of people worked in that factories and would probably have to mom move if the factories will be moved somewhere else.

    Don’t worry about the d800. It will come soon enough.

    • http://www.jpgmag.com/people/markwjr Mark

      Soon enough for what? Christmas, hopefully.

    • http://www.robertash.com Robert Ash

      Michael,

      You’re right. Mechanical things don’t matter – people matter. This news of loss of material things (factory + equipment + products) should be a catalyst for us to care much more deeply about the people hurt, many of whom can’t even afford nice cameras. If everything material is lost but the people are safe we have everything of real value. If nothing material is lost but innocent people die we have nothing of real value.

      • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

        “…people matter .”

        Indeed. I am extremely blessed. Blessed to be alive. Blessed to be able to afford Nikon gear. Blessed to fairly safe from these catastrophes in my life. Blessed to be in a place where my chance for survival/coping are greatly increased should similar disasters happen here.

        I think it’s easy to lose sight of the reality of our fortune. But frankly, if we’re on this website, chances are high we’re rich beyond compare to the rest of the world. I don’t personally feel this is something to be ashamed of, nor something to apologize for. However, it would be nice if we (the fortunate few in this world) would be willing to exercise patience and restraint when schedules don’t jive for us, especially when it means suffering or even death is a reality for those at the other end of the situation. Acting like a bunch of prudish prima donna pantywaists because we won’t be able to fondle our new $4k toys before the new year rolls around while folks in other countries are struggling to stay alive seems a bit moronic.

        I guess personal misfortune really is about the only way to get folks, especially affluent ones, to recognize and empathize with the plight of others.

        • http://www.manjitriyat.tk Manj

          +1

        • Jabs

          @Ron

          True indeed – heartless until YOU lose, often.

          +1

      • nomoneynohoney

        -1

        • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

          nomoneynohoney: “+1″

          There, FTFY.

    • Jessica Yumiko

      -1

      • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

        Jessica Yumiko: “+1″

        There, FTFY2.

  • Jack

    I can’t be bothered about the hundreds dead and thousands affected by the floods in Thailand, but the flood waters reaching the Nikon factories worries me a bit. But as long as Nikon releases its new FX format camera on schedule, I am all good man.

    • TheInconvenientRuth

      Just for saying that I hope you’ll be the last person on earth to get a new FX body.
      You are a pathetic little kid.

      • Discontinued

        “You are a pathetic little kid.”

        I guess you missed some sarcasm in Jack’s comment. What is your age?

        • Captain

          Sarcasm is the wit of a fool.

          • FrenchFlies

            not when used correctly

          • dwd

            .. and quoting Socrates as your own to make yourself look witty is any better??

            • http://www.createdbylove.com/ Lewis

              Socrates huh? Well I guess that makes sense. Everything we knew about Socrates is in the writings of Plato who believed that truth itself was sort of a deity. In this way, knowingly saying anything untruthful would be like blasphemy and sarcasm is saying what you don’t mean to make a point so….

        • lolly

          most people cannot know the hidden meaning in words and can only interpret it literally.

          to avoid miscommunication it’s better to say what you mean ;)

    • Bip

      People who say that will have bad karma. Better cross your finger that the same thing wonn’t happen to where you live, ever.

      • http://www.dimalozz.ho.ua dimalozz

        +1000

    • Johnny Andrean

      -1

  • George

    I would be nice to know if this factory produces anything related to FX bodies or not. Anybody knows???

    • Arwana Matahari

      Nope…..this particular factory only produce the D800 cap and strap…so no worry kiddo!

    • A Thought

      This factory is not related to dslr manufacturing.
      Read the first comments.

      • Andrew

        It is… “entry level DSLRs”.

  • tim

    Looking closely at the photo, the factory looks to be built on columns, so perhaps the production lines are okay. Much like what happened in Japan though, it’s the employees, the shipping, and the power systems that are going to be the most heavily impacted. So sad… Let’s hope Malaysia isn’t the next location for a natural disaster…

    • Sahaja

      Malaysia – they can get volcanoes near there

  • EvanK

    If anybody finds a D800 floating around somewhere in Thailand, don’t hesitate to sell it to me! :)

  • EvanK

    Of course, I shouldn’t get too angry. Hopefully everybody’s okay, and may those who lost their lives rest in peace.

  • A.D

    Nikon Price will sure increase after this.

  • Jason.Y

    all of these means “d800, d whatever” is futher away.

  • cpm5280

    Well, hey, Nikon…I’ve got a great idea! We have lots of highly skilled workers over here. They’d probably work under the table if you wanted. We’ll leave the light on.

  • LittleA

    There are no Nikon factory sites in the Philippines but we also suffer from flooding year after year and worst this year.The South East Asian countries are very vulnerable to climate change more than any place in the world.

    • hello

      I think Malaysia should be alright, at least the west coast area where most of the big factories were.

  • Anon

    Nikon should launch the D800 ASAP before another natural disaster happens at their last resort of Malaysia.

  • Banned

    They should come open factories in Europe we don’t have natural disasters.

    • NikonCEO

      I hear you…OK…..You got it!!

    • http://www.createdbylove.com/ Lewis

      I hear Pompeii has a great industrial park.

  • mshi

    Karma is a bitch.

    • http://AdairCreativeGroup.comp Ron Adair

      Come back here and share when you find your personal story to illustrate.

      • mshi
        • http://nikonrumors.com/ [NR] admin

          I’ve seen this before but it looks like blackmail. Do you guys think this is legit?

          • mshi
          • http://AdairCreativeGroup.com Ron Adair

            Unfortunately, the content at the link mshi provided is so convoluted I can’t even understand what relation there is to Nikon in the first place. Scientology? Child labor? Sounds like mshi is a disgruntled conspiracy theorist to me.

            Reminds me of the folks that accused Chick-fil-A of hating gays because they served chicken at (and support the ideals of) an event focused on traditional marriage. Trying to pin these labels on corps because they have some loose affiliation with a group whose views you don’t personally support is pretty terroristic.

  • JW82721

    Why are they producing in Thailand anyway? Why isn’t it Japan? Nikon products are not cheaper than Canons, although they’re producing in Japan with sure a lot higher payments.

    • Sahaja

      Actually Canon and Sony have camera plants there too.

      I’ve never had problems with goods manufactured in Thailand.

      Pretty hot and humid but it is a lovely country.

  • Pete

    Nikon (Thailand) Co., Ltd., a consolidated subsidiary of Nikon Corporation in the Rojana Industrial Park in Ayutthaya Province located in Central Thailand, is submerged by the flood caused by torrential rainfall since last July.

    The latest situations at Nikon (Thailand) Co., Ltd. are as follows:

    1.Damages
    The 1st floor of all buildings at the premises are presently submerged. Details of the damages are now under investigation. As for the employees, the human damage has not been reported so far. The factory is suspending its operation since October 6.

    2.Estimated impact to our business performance
    We are now doing our utmost to estimate the impact of the flood to our group companies and business performance. We assure you to immediately advise the findings once it is judged there will be an important change in our forecast.

    3.Recovery
    We are continuing to investigate details of the damage, but are unable to predict how soon operation will be resumed. We will set up our recovery support system and endeavor to restart its operation as early as possible. We are now requesting drainage of the industrial park to the Thai government, together with the Rojana Industrial Park authority, other companies in the Park and Japan External Trade Organization.

    .

    • broxibear

      Sorry Pete there’s something wrong with the blog and isn’t showing all the comments, that’s why I posted the same information as you have…your post wasn’t showing when I posted.

  • HairyOtter

    I can see floating Nikon N1 & J1 in the picture….they are shipping by sea…

  • Kwartjuh

    Almost 300 people died, and many peoples belongings and houses are destroyed.
    And we worry about a factory from a multi-billion corporation…
    Consumerism at its best. Sigh…

    • Canonian

      Good to see that some photographer still have heart….

      • http://www.dimalozz.ho.ua dimalozz

        +100!!!

    • dwd

      Hi, welcome to nikonrumors.com a site dedicated to rumors and news about Nikon Corporation and it’s products.

    • Andrew

      Unfortunately, we cannot bring those people back. Don’t use their death to attack the people at this site. I am sure you mean well, but even you are here reading this blog and all the responses. Maybe the best we can do is contribute through some charitable organization…

  • Simon

    First the tsunami, then nuclear fallout in Japan now flooding in Thailand. Someone up there don’t like Nikon.

    • Fella

      or Asians

  • Cam

    Well like all these big companies who want to build on flood plains, serves them right that they don’t put some of there profits we give them to better use and build in slightly trickier locations than the easy flat lowlands. Same as Apple who will soon be getting it in the neck for not building their factories in the US and give their own people a job. No good having $80 Billion in the bank and see their own people go down the tubes. Its not all about profit surely? Morals will have to come into play at some time.

    • Andrew

      I have a solution. Become an entrepreneur and start your own business. Then hopefully when you make your $80 billion, you will still remember all the others you left behind. It is not as easy as you think. The big profits Apple has accumulated with their $499 iPad and other products may soon disappear when Android tablets start selling for $99. It happened before with their Mac computers and by about 1998, Apple was nearly bankrupt. So they may need that $80 billion to pour into new development or to acquiring some other company.

    • Sahaja

      Yeah sure – let’s buy Kodak cameras.

  • ElPadre

    hmmm. perhaps nikon should really start thinking about establishing most of its production base in, say, mongolia. now there’s a country where the biggest problems are a few sandstorms and a little drought. seems feasible, innit?

  • Donna Ismail

    If u want to make a joke…..make sure the sarcasm is obvious enough!

  • Sudi Mampir

    This sucks!!

  • Benny Ginn

    Woww….this is no good !!

  • Adam

    This sucks, Nikon is still recovering from the tsunami blow and now they got another problem to solve. Mother Nature, pls give Nikon a break :)

  • Markus

    Well, unfortunately something is true ‘news’ at this site…

  • Not so supersticious

    Given that in Japan the number 4 is associated with death is there possible truth to the rumour that the D4 may be renamed because of this Japanese superstition?

    N.B @Jabs please do not be hard on me if you do respond, pretty please!

    • Jabs

      LOL

      Sorry but I prefer to be in the background here PLUS this human suffering has impacted me to the point where I prefer to be ‘invisible’ here.

      Not superstitious also!

      Kinda sad!

      Treasure life before it is taken away from you suddenly!

    • http://www.eaglewheel.us bikinchris

      No. Once again for the record. Nikon has produced several products with the number 4 in the name. F4, F4s, S4 rangefinder, Coolpix F4, as well as hundreds of accessories with the number 4 in them.

  • broxibear

    Notice on the damage from the flood in Thailand October 11, 2011

    Nikon (Thailand) Co., Ltd., a consolidated subsidiary of Nikon Corporation in the Rojana Industrial Park in Ayutthaya Province located in Central Thailand, is submerged by the flood caused by torrential rainfall since last July.

    The latest situations at Nikon (Thailand) Co., Ltd. are as follows:

    1. Damages
    The 1st floor of all buildings at the premises are presently submerged. Details of the damages are now under investigation. As for the employees, the human damage has not been reported so far. The factory is suspending its operation since October 6.

    2. Estimated impact to our business performance
    We are now doing our utmost to estimate the impact of the flood to our group companies and business performance. We assure you to immediately advise the findings once it is judged there will be an important change in our forecast.

    3 Recovery
    We are continuing to investigate details of the damage, but are unable to predict how soon operation will be resumed. We will set up our recovery support system and endeavor to restart its operation as early as possible. We are now requesting drainage of the industrial park to the Thai government, together with the Rojana Industrial Park authority, other companies in the Park and Japan External Trade Organization.

    http://www.nikon.com/news/2011/1011_01_e.htm

  • Aaron

    It’s funny how us people in the western world are worried about our new shiny cameras being delayed when the people in these asian countries are suffering and loosing their homes.

    I suppose thats the harsh truth about consumerism though…

    • Bro

      Do you want us to cry??? My new camera means more to me than a homeless person in Thailand. Homelessness and suffering is everywhere, if you are so concerned then go over there and help out.

      Don’t make us feel guilty for consuming, we know no better….

      (comment posted on a 27’Imac made in China by slaves… As was yours probably)

  • Zim

    I guess this means no D400 for awhile!

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