Comments on: Nikon’s pro DSLRs outsell Canon’s big time

By: Eretik

Eretik — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:32:31 +0000

You are liar, my friend.

By: Eretik

Eretik — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:28:02 +0000

Thom Hogan? His opinion costs nothing

By: I-Strain

I-Strain — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:02:14 +0000

My mistake. Make that five colors, four cameras, on the chart. (Right?!) And I’ve no idea what camera the mysterious fifth — lightest shade of beige, not gray — color is suppose to represent. Any guesses?

By: I-Strain

I-Strain — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:41:37 +0000

I’m not sure which chart everyone is referencing but it’s clear, based on the data recorded on the four-color vertical bar graph posted at the top of this thread, Canon tops the list for each month represented. Yes, that’s “four” — “4″ — colors! Look at the graph again. The “color” ( i.e. camera) top-most on the bar “wins”, in terms of percentages, for that sales period. (All that “beige” and “gray” at the top represent Canon — not empty space on the bar.) I believe the confusion is in the incredibly bad choice of graph used, in which case the vertical scale is represented in meaningless “%” rather then actual units sold. That said, I’m going to look at the chart again — 30 or 300 more times after I hit “Post Comment” — and see how big a fool I just made of myself if I’ve misinterpreted the information. LOL

By: Tim

Tim — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:11:10 +0000

Alright.. I was going to stay quiet until I read your comment Raymo.. THE NIKON D200′S & UP HAVE THE MOST TERRIBLE, AWKWARD INTERFACE OF ANY CAMERA I’VE EVER PUT A FINGER ON!! This counting the weird “dual button” controls of the 1D MKIIN… Would you like to argue this? Try changing from S, CL, or CH, (woops.. I need two hands and my 300mm f/2.8 is damned heavy) or hitting a single DRIVE button with your index finger and spinning a thumb wheel (ONE HANDED!) DONE.

OR.. Lets simply use our camera on the fly and choose a single point for some low light focusing goodness.. (7D vs D300s) I want the top right rule of thirds point.. BUT WAIT.. MY NIKON HAS A SLOW AWKWARD D-PAD.. AND WHAT’S THIS.. THE CANON HAS A QUICK JOYSTICK AND I CAN USE MY SHUTTER VALUE DIAL TOO??? ..My D300s just tried to use all 51 points and.. well like usual.. missed.

If you can’t change the ISO on a 40/50/5DmkII/7D with just one hand and WITHOUT taking your face off the view finder.. your hands are too small.. you sir/madam need a smaller body.

Whew.. I can breath now.

Trust me, I can see the forest from the trees here. This is great for anyone who loves photography and enjoys taking photos. Competition drives innovation and it produces more relevant cameras.

I will be the first to admit.. I love the D700, it’s incredible.. and my Canon’s just don’t add up to it (for the time being.. ..do I hear 5DMKIIN??) However, I would never in this lifetime trade my 70-200 f/2.8L IS for your 70-200 f/2.8 VR..

A couple more qualms before I leave you bumble bee loyalists to flame me to death (I won’t be reading your responses either.. sorry for the seagull treatment) THE 5DMKII is still in slow production.. and it was released a year or so AFTER the D700 so its natural that the D700 has the edge in unit sales.. it was VERY available for a good amount of time BEFORE the 5DMKII.

Pink Elephant time.. video, whether you like it or not is a huge part of the future for these cameras.. and Nikon has NEXT TO NO MARKET SHARE FOR THESE CUSTOMERS. Go shoot commercials and indy films with your Nikon.. five minutes at a time!

Your pro models are good.. not great. Nikon will play second banana in the pro arena for another (D1/D2) dark era soon here. In the consumer market the Rebel series will continue to stay dominant and will continue to break new shooters into the market.

By: MikeD

MikeD — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:12:29 +0000

As a stills camera, the Nikons are “better.” But for the few of us who come from the video market, Canon is still the best way to go. This is sad as I was rooting for Nikon to come out with a serious contender to the 5DMk2. Just two months ago I had my finger on the trigger for a D300s at 720p 24fps when the 7D came out with 1080p 24fps/720p 60fps. The D90, D5000 and D300s just don’t compete, look at which cameras are used on vimeo.com. Despite using a Canon body I prefer to use Nikon AI/AIS primes on adapters. Nikon isn’t making any new money there. My collection of Canon lenses is growing though. The serious money isn’t in the bodies, its in the lenses. Canon is tapping a new market and there Nikon needs to catch up.

By: Ron Adair

Ron Adair — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:41:54 +0000

Clearly, some people need to read before they type. Let me recap:

THERE
IS
NO
D3S
ON
THIS
CHART.
PERIOD.

All comparisons on this chart are between cameras that are AT LEAST 1 year old. This means the D3S IS NOT A PART OF THIS CHART COMPARISON. In other words, THEY ARE NOT COMPARING THE D3S TO THE CANON MARK III’s.

Put yet another way, this chart makes no mention of purple elephants, alien spaceships, lost cities (eg Atlantis), Elvis impersonators, or cameras that were released or announced in the last 6 months. For instance, the Nikon D3s. Or the D4. Or the M1. Or the Canon 1DsMiv. Or the iPhone 3gs (which is technically a camera PHONE).

Ok. Is that clear, or does anyone need more examples?

By: D700

D700 — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:23:43 +0000

They have regained, yes. The question is what they’re doing to stay in the lead.

Thom Hogan wrote this on dpreview:

“As I wrote some months ago on my site, I believe Nikon’s consumer DSLR lineup is showing signs of fatigue. A D3000 without LV or video doesn’t hold up well against some of the competitors. 10mp is a bit passe. Nikon keeps obsoleting cameras at the low end without a lot of change (e.g. D40x->D60->D3000). It appears that they either think that what worked will still work, or that they’re a bit lost as to what might really appeal to that customer. Meanwhile, m4/3 and the coming onslaught of mirrorless cameras offer that customer another choice (though at present, a much more expensive one–though that, too, is problematic, as I’d guess that the product margin on a GF1 may be higher than that of a D5000).

Nikon historically has had trouble bringing their pro insights and technology down into a long-lived line of consumer models. The N80 was one of the big successes there, and the D90 sort of mimics that. But below that level, Nikon tends to just churn models without a clear goal. ”

It seems Nikon’s about to make the same mistakes Canon did in 2007.

I’m a D700 user myself. I’m no Canon troll. But at the moment Canon are flexing their muscles. Nikon seem to have lost the momentum.

By: Ron Adair

Ron Adair — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:20:11 +0000

Alex –

Thanks! Check back in the next few months. I’m planning a totally new site, hopefully one that dumps flash and features more of my current work.

And thanks for the feedback. Its always fun to hear!

By: Ron Adair

Ron Adair — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:18:17 +0000

I, too, agree. My comment a few posts up says basically the same thing, and a little more. This is why I was so adamant in my defense of Nikon a few months back here on NR. Nikon takes the slower, more methodical, and often unpopular route of under-promising and over-delivering. They work hard, get it right, then release it.

Of course, when you’re talking millions of people testing your product on release, you occasionally have bugs uncovered you didn’t find in testing. But by and large, I believe Nikon works very hard to nail down a shippable product with long term value for the customer.

Canon, on the other hand, seems to rush a product, then hype it’s capabilities. That model is now showing its age and its flaws. It all comes down to performance lately, and Canon is clearly flailing.

By: Ron Adair

Ron Adair — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:10:34 +0000

Colin – I disagree. You say Canon will be competitive again with their IV lines because they HAVE to be (as their last series of bodies were weak). I am highly dubious of any claims Canon puts out about “matched performance” to the current crop of Nikons, including the notion that they too just magically arrived at the 102k ISO at the same time Nikon has RELEASED a camera capable of doing this.

Look at the samples from Canon at 102k ISO, and you’ll see it’s not just a little hype, but loads of it. Even Canon users will be highly disappointed by the results if they ship a camera that performs as poorly as the tests so far show it might.

I believe Canon has dug themselves a very deep hole. The tech isn’t there to support the low noise at higher pixel counts they are shipping with. They can’t keep their high ISO numbers lower than their main competitor (Nikon), and they can’t take the ISO up to the same level as Nikon with anywhere near the same performance. They won’t look great shipping a body with the same pixel count, and they CAN’T drop pixel counts in order to improve high ISO performance. They are frantic, and it’s showing quite plainly.

And I think it’s hilarious.

By: Fotograf Stuttgart

Fotograf Stuttgart — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:58:26 +0000

canon still sells 5Dmk2s like hotcakes.

maybe that is cue in what customer wants?

By: Matthew Saville

Matthew Saville — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:02:14 +0000

By the way, CDM, I’m with you- I REALLY want to see some more f/4 zooms from Nikon, I’m extremely jealous of the 17-40 and 70-200 f/4’s…!!!! Great lenses…

=Matt=

By: Matthew Saville

Matthew Saville — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:54:26 +0000

Unfortunately, I feel like the 5D mk2 kinda slammed the door on a mythical sub-$3000 “digital EOS 3″

I mean think about it: the 5D mk2 debuted at $2700, and it’s kind of a dud aside from the 1080p revolution. NOTHING on that camera is 1-series material except the sensor. Standard Canon business tactics- Take a top-grade sensor and put it in a body that only certain photographers WITHOUT very high standards can use…

The AF is decent, but any real pro wedding / sports photographer should be using a 1-series. Especially wedding / portrait photographers who like to shoot wide open on a 1.2 L prime…

The weather sealing is decent, and the 5D mk2 is ALMOST qualified as “the ultimate adventure photography camera” …except for the fact that again, any mission-critical work really ought to be done on a 1-series, especially considering the stories of 5D mk2 failures in wet conditions.

This really just sets the tone for Canon’s next few years in my opinion. How COULD they come out with a “3D” type camera at $2999 and toss in 1-series weather sealing and autofocus?

*IF* they ever make a “3D”, it’ll probably be at least $500-$1000 more than the 5D mk2’s MSRP. And at that point you’re approaching 1D mk3 / 1D mk4 territory, where the low-light performance is already pretty awesome, and the frame rate is insane, etc… The camera would also be the laughingstock of D700 users, For those people who don’t need the extra features that the 1-series has to offer, but at least would like pro grade AF etc. at an affordable price. That is the D700’s crown, right now, and I don’t see how Canon can take it away any time soon for less than $3700…

=Matt=

By: Jabs

Jabs — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:58:11 +0000

Good post and observations.
Companies purchase equipment on a schedule based upon needs or even the recommendations of Consultants. They have specific needs and also limited time to use their equipment to acquire (photograph) their needs. Many photographers are now required to photograph many different subjects and bring back to their employees a mass of multimedia including stills and videos as we have newspapers/magazine etc., with websites needing CONTENT and more CONTENT plus there are a lot of ‘podcasts’.
Cameras and gathering CONTENT has changed in the digital era and we are now like one man content collectors trying to do three or four jobs. The EP1 like some of the 4/3rds cameras are being explored for their compact sizes plus the 1080p content some of them can shoot better than many DSLR’s. Maybe Nikon is trying to make one and release it soon?
The ‘instant gratification world’ requires much and equipment users are reacting to the pressure on them to produce, especially in larger markets here in America. I saw a press photographer (he shoots everything for his newspaper) recently on an assignment and he had two Canon ‘pro’ bodies (MK3, I think or the one with 21mp), one with probably 24-70 F2.8 and the other with a 70-200 F2.8. Both were set up to focus and shoot via different buttons and I asked him why he did this. He said the cameras have lousy or inconsistent focusing so he did this through custom functions so he could better do his job. The company had invested in Canon equipment and they were waiting on a return on investment before buying anything else.
I tried both cameras and hated its’ autofocusing plus the “two button photography” drove me nuts (LOL!). I took a few shots with both bodies and in that overcast day, it would hunt and not look focus often with both bodies in a crowd of people even when the day became sunnier.
I can see why people left alone the Canon pro bodies like that, as I am used to Nikons.
Maybe the 7D (not so far from previews or reviews) and even the MK4 rectifies that, as I have been using autofocus since the F3AF days (had one) but that Canon camera drove me nuts. You had to make too many conscious decisions based upon the limitations of the Canon camera and the photojournalist said that his Company was aware of that but had already purchased the equipment a few years back and were Canon users.
You use what you like but I am not about to be hijacked by flawed cameras if I am purchasing it with my OWN money, which I have done over the years. No one bought equipment for me, so I have a different perspective.

By: Terry Allen

Terry Allen — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:00:10 +0000

I’ve just returned from France, Italy and England – I was pleasantly surprised to see the number of people using Nikon SLRs, of those I saw I would think perhaps 8 out of 10 had a Nikon in their hand! Quite a number of D700 and D300 models. Most looked to be on holiday, as I was – no matter what the facts say it was evident to me that Nikon certainly appears to have regained some market from Canon.

By: Jay

Jay — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:10:10 +0000

based on my experiences, pro portrait photographer in China mostly shoot with 5DII. The number for D3 and D3X are actually boosted by the rich guys who have too much money.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:58:26 +0000

considering the various posts above about “Pros” buying these equipment, my guess is that they’re missing an important market for pro-level gear. reporters and paparazzis. although many of them tape their cameras, it’s not difficult to tell between a Nikon and a Canon, and on various events, i’ve seen very few Canon users, which AFAIK, most newspaper companies that purchase cameras for their field reporters to use, buy Nikon + Nikkor lenses, although recently, i’ve seen some Sigma lenses, like the very cheap and comparatively compact 150-500mm. this goes for sports events which you won’t see Sigma lenses, and larger scale press releases/staged events, which you might see the occasional Sigma lens. the bodies are almost exclusively Nikon, from actual press, not the freelance guys, which inevitably are a mixed bunch varying from mainly Nikon and Canon(with their prominent white 70-200mm f2.8, or Sony, Pentax and recently, some strange phenomenon i’ve seen with EP-1s with a tacked on Nikkor 70-200mm f2.8… maybe it’s for the micro 4/3rds crop, maybe it’s just someone with too much money on their hands, like putting an SB900 on a LX3/D-Lux4 to show off…

anyways, bottom line is, AFAIK, journalists of variable ilk almost always use Nikon. and there being a lot of them would explain the amount of sales for the D3/D3x. 24MP D3x would give tack sharp, easily croppable photos of super tele photos of celebrities sunbathing nude in remote southern french beaches, or Bradgelina’s backyard photos. Not to mention professionals in other fields, or their respective companies, are more inclined to choose Nikon. remember those D200’s used for traffic cams in Sweden or someplace? perhaps it has to do with the marketing strategies for Nikon and Canon a couple decades ago, targettiing different audiences. it really doesn’t matter to most consumers which brand outsells the other. I’ve used Nikon for some time now, and have since learned some of my respected photographers like Chase Jarvis, Scott Kelby, Joe McNally, uses Nikon Digital. (film is a completely different matter, even though i’m still partial towards Nikon, i’d be more inclined to play around with Mamiya, Voigtlander, Lomography or other various brands)

By: Jabs

Jabs — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:14:35 +0000

Greetings Rhodium,
Nikon like Canon and all or most manufacturers report their sales figures and there are Industry groups who verify and report sales figures per item.
Same way we know how many BMW’s and Honda’s that are sold yearly plus the per model sales breakdown.
Many persons like to bash items which don’t fit their own thinking, so I don’t post much info., often.
Many want the world to be how they perceive it while not knowing much about Business or even simple things like Consumer Reports for consumers and then Business Reports focused on accurate Business Intelligence or Sales Data.
Consumer Reports reports TRENDS often while Business Reports often report reported sales by Dealers, Industry groups or such and are usually more close to the facts.
I live in America and know how it works here plus I have been using cameras from the Nikon FA-F3HP (had both) days and thus experienced with the differences which continue today!

By: PHB

PHB — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:59:47 +0000

Yes, sales of the Canon 5D have been comfortably holding off the D3 for quite some time.

But if you look at the Amazon sales ranks, it is pretty clear that a graph of sales in the professional segment would be the same as for the flagship segment. The D700 is creaming the 5D despite the megapixel gap.

The bad news here is that the D800 will clearly cost in the region of $3500-$4000