Comments on: Nikon continues to push DX lenses? ( new Nikkor 85mm VR DX patent) http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/ where there’s smoke there’s fire Fri, 25 May 2012 09:22:30 +0000 hourly 1 By: Mike S http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-31147 Mike S Sat, 08 Aug 2009 03:26:07 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-31147 When the Nikkor AFS 85mm VR DX is released, I will buy it. If they redo the AF 24 f/2.8D into something like a "AFS DX 24mm f/2.8 G", I will buy that one too. I will stay with the DX format and upgrade from my D80 to the D300s in a couple of years. For me, this is a hobby, so all the big bucks for the pro fx stuff is not really necessary. When the Nikkor AFS 85mm VR DX is released, I will buy it. If they redo the AF 24 f/2.8D into something like a “AFS DX 24mm f/2.8 G”, I will buy that one too. I will stay with the DX format and upgrade from my D80 to the D300s in a couple of years.

For me, this is a hobby, so all the big bucks for the pro fx stuff is not really necessary.

]]> By: Micah http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30972 Micah Wed, 05 Aug 2009 06:09:00 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30972 I disagree about expensive lenses being an issue, since there are literally tons of nikon lenses on the used market that work fine on FX gear. That said, selling a cheap FX body would be easy for Nikon because of all that available glass, but it wouldn't benefit Nikon, so much as hurt the competition. I disagree about expensive lenses being an issue, since there are literally tons of nikon lenses on the used market that work fine on FX gear. That said, selling a cheap FX body would be easy for Nikon because of all that available glass, but it wouldn’t benefit Nikon, so much as hurt the competition.

]]> By: Ubiquitous http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30791 Ubiquitous Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:10:31 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30791 No vigil, tonight? Aren't the announcements coming out of Sweden and Austria on August 4th, their time? No vigil, tonight? Aren’t the announcements coming out of Sweden and Austria on August 4th, their time?

]]> By: Astrophotographer http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30787 Astrophotographer Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:49:15 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30787 As an end note, this is an f3.5 lens, (in the patent FNO = 3.6). As an end note, this is an f3.5 lens, (in the patent FNO = 3.6).

]]> By: Brett http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30781 Brett Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:38:12 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30781 These FX vs DX arguments are mostly from people that do not seem to understand the technology developements, cost structures and trends. 1) Smaller sensors are cheaper than bigger ones. Semiconductors have been this way for 50 years with no end in site. Sensors are not going upsize, they continue to trend to downsize into less expensive markets 2) ISO senstivity and dynamic range improve with each generation of sensor - Arguments for really fast high end lenses are less relavant when we could all be shooting ISO 12800 in a few years. A/D technology keeps improving. Thus, smaller, lighter lenses will provide "pro quality" speed. This has already happended to an extent with good low noise ISO400/800. 3) Megapixels will be become much less meaningful. Mega pixels already are higher than the quality of many lenses. They are also high enough for high quality full page magazine prints. While there will always be a market for very high end, high res content, enough is enough. 4) Nikon will be pushing DX lenses for the foresable future. It would not be a good marketing move, technical move or business move to shift prosumer, consumer DSLR to FX. They would simply loose market share by forcing more expensive lenses on the masses. It would also force them to introduce lower quality FX and demish the "pro" FX brand image. Long live DX. Nikon will continue to make better and better DX lenses, sharper, lighter, wider zoom ranges. Oh and my favorite lens is the 10.5mm FE. Prime and perfect for DX. These FX vs DX arguments are mostly from people that do not seem to understand the technology developements, cost structures and trends.
1) Smaller sensors are cheaper than bigger ones. Semiconductors have been this way for 50 years with no end in site. Sensors are not going upsize, they continue to trend to downsize into less expensive markets
2) ISO senstivity and dynamic range improve with each generation of sensor – Arguments for really fast high end lenses are less relavant when we could all be shooting ISO 12800 in a few years. A/D technology keeps improving. Thus, smaller, lighter lenses will provide “pro quality” speed. This has already happended to an extent with good low noise ISO400/800.
3) Megapixels will be become much less meaningful. Mega pixels already are higher than the quality of many lenses. They are also high enough for high quality full page magazine prints. While there will always be a market for very high end, high res content, enough is enough.
4) Nikon will be pushing DX lenses for the foresable future. It would not be a good marketing move, technical move or business move to shift prosumer, consumer DSLR to FX. They would simply loose market share by forcing more expensive lenses on the masses. It would also force them to introduce lower quality FX and demish the “pro” FX brand image.

Long live DX. Nikon will continue to make better and better DX lenses, sharper, lighter, wider zoom ranges. Oh and my favorite lens is the 10.5mm FE. Prime and perfect for DX.

]]> By: Tony http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30746 Tony Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:47:39 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30746 I guess if one is worried about the weight then a P&S would be more the answer than a DSLR. I guess if one is worried about the weight then a P&S would be more the answer than a DSLR.

]]> By: Astrophotographer http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30744 Astrophotographer Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:45:44 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30744 Except with 14 elements this will be a heavy dx lens. Except with 14 elements this will be a heavy dx lens.

]]> By: Marc W. http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30729 Marc W. Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:34:28 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30729 "i always feel bad when i buy a product then it gets updated so i’d rather wait for a new one. =P and when i dont have the latest gear i always lust for it and it affects my photography" I waited to hear about the 85mm 1.4 AF-S because I knew it would be very expensive and I wanted to the AF-D version to drop in price. I couldn't wait for the price job, so I got a used AF-D. No regrets! “i always feel bad when i buy a product then it gets updated so i’d rather wait for a new one. =P and when i dont have the latest gear i always lust for it and it affects my photography”

I waited to hear about the 85mm 1.4 AF-S because I knew it would be very expensive and I wanted to the AF-D version to drop in price.

I couldn’t wait for the price job, so I got a used AF-D. No regrets!

]]> By: Marc W. http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30724 Marc W. Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:26:24 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30724 They do make a 85mm 1.4, and it's fantastic! They do make a 85mm 1.4, and it’s fantastic!

]]> By: Mike http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30707 Mike Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:37:39 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30707 Well I'm a D40 user too and for me weight and size are well factors! What's the point of having such a small DSLR if you have to mount a lens twice the size? I like to take it everywhere I go and for this use a 35 DX or 85 DX are (would be) perfect, just like a WA prime in between 16 and 20 mm. There it goes, I'm dreaming again... ;-) Well I’m a D40 user too and for me weight and size are well factors! What’s the point of having such a small DSLR if you have to mount a lens twice the size? I like to take it everywhere I go and for this use a 35 DX or 85 DX are (would be) perfect, just like a WA prime in between 16 and 20 mm. There it goes, I’m dreaming again… ;-)

]]> By: STJ http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30696 STJ Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:39:59 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30696 "Ignorant FX snob" from an Anonymous... Not very nice... Anyway - to the point: Lets see - a 85mm DX fits on a FX body, but the inverse is not the case. Taken that a FX is more expensive and heavy than a DX there might be reason for this, but given that all/most pro bodyes from Nikon are FX and that most consumers never touch a prime this must be said to be slightly strange, in partiqular since the current 85mm FX design is so old, hasn't VR nor nano coating or AFS... “Ignorant FX snob” from an Anonymous… Not very nice…
Anyway – to the point:
Lets see – a 85mm DX fits on a FX body, but the inverse is not the case. Taken that a FX is more expensive and heavy than a DX there might be reason for this, but given that all/most pro bodyes from Nikon are FX and that most consumers never touch a prime this must be said to be slightly strange, in partiqular since the current 85mm FX design is so old, hasn’t VR nor nano coating or AFS…

]]> By: Lance http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30694 Lance Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:26:29 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30694 My personal thoughts are that sometime in the distant future, all DSLRs will be FX, yes even the cheapest ones. As technology progresses and performance advantages become more and more important to keep market share, FX will push farther down the line until all DSLRs are FX. A DSLR will then be regarded as the "Pro" format, with the cheaper entry level models eventually dying off due to what happens with DX... DX sized sensors will eventually end up in a smaller format camera, kind of like the micro 4/3, and will be compatible with older DX glass with an adapter. Future DX glass will be smaller, with a smaller dedicated mount smaller than the current "F" mount. The camera body will be smaller with an electronic viewfinder and no mirror, just like the 4/3 system. The small size of the DX sensor will make this possible, but since it is still larger than the 4/3 will offer better performance by means of larger photosites. Today's DX primes will be obsolete in 10 years only because there will be new versions released with the smaller Nikon "D" mount for the new smaller body, and also because the smaller body will not be able to mechanically actuate the aperture (though the adapter likely will be able to do this as directed by the camera body). Having said this, I'm happily shooting today with a D90 and a 35 1.8 DX prime, which is an AMAZING lens for the price. An 85mm 1.8 DX VR would be far too expensive to justify... most people wouldn't spend $500 on a DX pime. If they could do it for $300 that would be a different story, but that's a pipe dream. 10 years from now I will have long moved on to an FX system, but 10 years is a long way away... My personal thoughts are that sometime in the distant future, all DSLRs will be FX, yes even the cheapest ones. As technology progresses and performance advantages become more and more important to keep market share, FX will push farther down the line until all DSLRs are FX. A DSLR will then be regarded as the “Pro” format, with the cheaper entry level models eventually dying off due to what happens with DX…

DX sized sensors will eventually end up in a smaller format camera, kind of like the micro 4/3, and will be compatible with older DX glass with an adapter. Future DX glass will be smaller, with a smaller dedicated mount smaller than the current “F” mount. The camera body will be smaller with an electronic viewfinder and no mirror, just like the 4/3 system. The small size of the DX sensor will make this possible, but since it is still larger than the 4/3 will offer better performance by means of larger photosites.

Today’s DX primes will be obsolete in 10 years only because there will be new versions released with the smaller Nikon “D” mount for the new smaller body, and also because the smaller body will not be able to mechanically actuate the aperture (though the adapter likely will be able to do this as directed by the camera body).

Having said this, I’m happily shooting today with a D90 and a 35 1.8 DX prime, which is an AMAZING lens for the price. An 85mm 1.8 DX VR would be far too expensive to justify… most people wouldn’t spend $500 on a DX pime. If they could do it for $300 that would be a different story, but that’s a pipe dream.

10 years from now I will have long moved on to an FX system, but 10 years is a long way away…

]]> By: Tony http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30683 Tony Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:15:06 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30683 I'm a D40X user and I don't care about weight either. If anything I complain about how LIGHT the D40X is. I used to tote around an F3 w/MD-4 and 70-210 so weight is not an issue. I’m a D40X user and I don’t care about weight either. If anything I complain about how LIGHT the D40X is. I used to tote around an F3 w/MD-4 and 70-210 so weight is not an issue.

]]> By: Matt http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30676 Matt Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:12:15 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30676 I think it sounds brilliant. Cheap and light f1.8 DX lenses. Expensive and heavy f1.4 FX lenses. Go for it, Nikon! I think it sounds brilliant. Cheap and light f1.8 DX lenses. Expensive and heavy f1.4 FX lenses. Go for it, Nikon!

]]> By: Desinderlase http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30675 Desinderlase Mon, 03 Aug 2009 09:10:02 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30675 I never understood this. DX cameras now are much better than FX cameras from few years back in terms of IQ. So why sudden, that quality is not for PRO usage anymore? If something does the job, use it. Many years ago, took 35mm format for serious, PRO used only medium format, and now nobody takes DX for serious (or at least some readers here ;) I never understood this. DX cameras now are much better than FX cameras from few years back in terms of IQ. So why sudden, that quality is not for PRO usage anymore? If something does the job, use it. Many years ago, took 35mm format for serious, PRO used only medium format, and now nobody takes DX for serious (or at least some readers here ;)

]]> By: Hey-nonny-mouse http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30673 Hey-nonny-mouse Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:59:55 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30673 Nikon's strategy appears to be: old 1.8 primes will be "upgraded" to new 1.8 dx primes old 1.4 primes will be "upgraded" to new 1.4 fx primes "serious amateurs" and "semi-pros" seem to be ill-considered in this strategy since many will not be interested in dx lenses but will not have the cash for 1.4 primes. Perhaps nikon's strategy needs to consider a new segment: "amateurs" will "upgrade" to new dx primes "serious amatuers/semi pros" will "upgrade" to canon system "pros" will "upgrade" to new fx primes Nikon’s strategy appears to be:
old 1.8 primes will be “upgraded” to new 1.8 dx primes
old 1.4 primes will be “upgraded” to new 1.4 fx primes

“serious amateurs” and “semi-pros” seem to be ill-considered in this strategy since many will not be interested in dx lenses but will not have the cash for 1.4 primes. Perhaps nikon’s strategy needs to consider a new segment:

“amateurs” will “upgrade” to new dx primes
“serious amatuers/semi pros” will “upgrade” to canon system
“pros” will “upgrade” to new fx primes

]]> By: Calvin http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30667 Calvin Mon, 03 Aug 2009 06:46:15 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30667 If I am Nikon, me too will push DX. Why? If Micro 3/4 is doing well, Nikon can easily produce a mirror-less camera using DX. This mean, technically it will win M3/4 with great choice of lenses. Now people are talking about small... definitely Nikon can make thing smaller. I am sure there are people who is looking for bigger unit. Just like got people using D60, got people using D300/700 and got people use D3. If I am Nikon, me too will push DX. Why?

If Micro 3/4 is doing well, Nikon can easily produce a mirror-less camera using DX. This mean, technically it will win M3/4 with great choice of lenses.

Now people are talking about small… definitely Nikon can make thing smaller. I am sure there are people who is looking for bigger unit. Just like got people using D60, got people using D300/700 and got people use D3.

]]> By: Astrophotographer http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30664 Astrophotographer Mon, 03 Aug 2009 06:04:00 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30664 From my reading of the application is this: It is a DX 85mm (field of view 19.1 deg). Also, it's 14 elements in 10 groups or there about (there are several variations of the design). That's a lot of glass for a fixed focal length DX. This would be on the expensive side. Last, the maximum aperture isn't specified (I can't find it). With this much glass it could be faster than f1.4. From my reading of the application is this:

It is a DX 85mm (field of view 19.1 deg).

Also, it’s 14 elements in 10 groups or there about (there are several variations of the design). That’s a lot of glass for a fixed focal length DX. This would be on the expensive side.
Last, the maximum aperture isn’t specified (I can’t find it). With this much glass it could be faster than f1.4.

]]> By: heartyfisher http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30654 heartyfisher Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:30:45 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30654 read through it .. lots of tech gobly gook.. may be its the patent for the 105 vr macro or a new dx 85mm version of that lens..... read through it .. lots of tech gobly gook.. may be its the patent for the 105 vr macro or a new dx 85mm version of that lens…..

]]> By: yooooo http://nikonrumors.com/2009/08/02/nikon-continues-to-push-dx-lenses-new-nikkor-85mm-vr-dx-patent.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-30652 yooooo Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:17:33 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=6183#comment-30652 i always feel bad when i buy a product then it gets updated so i'd rather wait for a new one. =P and when i dont have the latest gear i always lust for it and it affects my photography i always feel bad when i buy a product then it gets updated so i’d rather wait for a new one. =P and when i dont have the latest gear i always lust for it and it affects my photography

]]>