Comments on: Is “Eco-glass” reducing the quality of Nikon lenses? http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/ where there’s smoke there’s fire Thu, 24 May 2012 21:33:32 +0000 hourly 1 By: Micah http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-21306 Micah Wed, 08 Apr 2009 05:09:40 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-21306 Yeah, I don't see a reason either. This was to a comment that's long gone. Yeah, I don’t see a reason either. This was to a comment that’s long gone.

]]> By: [NR] admin http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13967 [NR] admin Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:01:40 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13967 no, you are not banned no, you are not banned

]]> By: Later Than Sooner http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13948 Later Than Sooner Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:59:05 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13948 HA, i got banned from that site for being smarter than a whipped mule... HA, i got banned from that site for being smarter than a whipped mule…

]]> By: [NR] admin http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13712 [NR] admin Thu, 01 Jan 2009 00:13:37 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13712 sorry - I also don't see a reason to be blocked sorry – I also don’t see a reason to be blocked

]]> By: bigmouth http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13708 bigmouth Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:50:23 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13708 ok, I can understand that to use lead free equipments is to protect your own troops and people who make them. On the other hand, if I work in a bullet, shell, missile factory, I can reasonably sure that I'm facing much more hazardous material and situation than just lead. Explosives compounds are probably very poisonous, anti-corrosion metal treatment probably is going to preserve bodies from decaying after it's 3 feet under (good for the archeologists of the 30th century though). This is besides the fact that the person is facing a possibility of unexpected discharge of the shell/bullet or whatever during manufacturing process. All these add together, the little lead seems to be much less significant. ok, I can understand that to use lead free equipments is to protect your own troops and people who make them. On the other hand, if I work in a bullet, shell, missile factory, I can reasonably sure that I’m facing much more hazardous material and situation than just lead. Explosives compounds are probably very poisonous, anti-corrosion metal treatment probably is going to preserve bodies from decaying after it’s 3 feet under (good for the archeologists of the 30th century though). This is besides the fact that the person is facing a possibility of unexpected discharge of the shell/bullet or whatever during manufacturing process. All these add together, the little lead seems to be much less significant.

]]> By: Micah http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13706 Micah Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:24:37 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13706 Exactly. However, I can't hate on the measurbators too much...they might help bring the price down! Exactly. However, I can’t hate on the measurbators too much…they might help bring the price down!

]]> By: [NR] admin http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13696 [NR] admin Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:36:18 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13696 I am still amazed by the amount of knowledge shared in the comments section - thanks to all contributors. Sometimes I create a post exactly for that reason - to get reader's opinion, knowledge and to trigger a discussion on the subject. Today we all know more about glass production and this is the purpose of this site - to share information. I am still amazed by the amount of knowledge shared in the comments section – thanks to all contributors. Sometimes I create a post exactly for that reason – to get reader’s opinion, knowledge and to trigger a discussion on the subject. Today we all know more about glass production and this is the purpose of this site – to share information.

]]> By: Pablov http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13690 Pablov Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:16:38 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13690 The electrons get out of the CRT crossing the glass ? Some peolpe told me that the electrons can't get out of the CRT, but I'm not so sure. If you put a Geiger counter next to the front of a CRT it detects radiation. Electrons beams are also known as Alpha. Protons as Beta radiation. The electrons get out of the CRT crossing the glass ?

Some peolpe told me that the electrons can’t get out of the CRT, but I’m not so sure.

If you put a Geiger counter next to the front of a CRT it detects radiation.

Electrons beams are also known as Alpha.
Protons as Beta radiation.

]]> By: Pablov http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13688 Pablov Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:10:34 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13688 Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the recycled ammount of camera lenses is big At least here, nobody ever throw to trash a single lens, unless it got completely broken or unusable. Please, send any unwanted lens you may have, I will keep it in use ! Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think the recycled ammount of camera lenses is big
At least here, nobody ever throw to trash a single lens, unless it got completely broken or unusable.

Please, send any unwanted lens you may have, I will keep it in use !

]]> By: PHB http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13687 PHB Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:10:27 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13687 Close, glass is actually a pretty good way to sequester poisonous metals, thats why we use it for uranium disposal. The issue is preventing the contamination that comes in the production cycle. Not all the lead that went into the glass went into the glass. Plenty went into the atmosphere. As for the bremstrahlung radiation theory, yes that is a big issue in high energy physics. But I have a hard time thinking it is an issue in a CRT. The velocity of the particle is not high and the radius of curvature is pretty large. I would have to do some math but I doubt that the lead would help at all. What is the frequency of the gamma radiation coming off a CRT? The reason you need the lead in a CRT is that an electron beam itself is ionizing radiation, its what used to be called beta radiation. Close, glass is actually a pretty good way to sequester poisonous metals, thats why we use it for uranium disposal.

The issue is preventing the contamination that comes in the production cycle. Not all the lead that went into the glass went into the glass. Plenty went into the atmosphere.

As for the bremstrahlung radiation theory, yes that is a big issue in high energy physics. But I have a hard time thinking it is an issue in a CRT. The velocity of the particle is not high and the radius of curvature is pretty large. I would have to do some math but I doubt that the lead would help at all. What is the frequency of the gamma radiation coming off a CRT?

The reason you need the lead in a CRT is that an electron beam itself is ionizing radiation, its what used to be called beta radiation.

]]> By: Pablov http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13686 Pablov Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:05:20 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13686 Send me your 400mm 2.8 when you are tired of it, I will recycle it Very well :) Send me your 400mm 2.8 when you are tired of it, I will recycle it Very well :)

]]> By: PHB http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13685 PHB Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:03:40 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13685 Actually quite a few armies are now using lead free bullets. I don't know that lead free solder is inferior to traditional. Since the melting point is higher one could reasonably expect superior results with respect to lifespan. You just need the right equipment, thats all. Military procurement procedures are not necessarily optimal or even sensible. Equipment must have been made with approved techniques even if the result is inferior. The point is that they have to understand the impact on the entire system before approving a change. Suppliers will often make spurious claims to avoid making expensive changes to their process. Just because something is said does not make it true. Another aspect that comes in is good old protectionism. And in the US there is the issue of political corruption. Some politicians will do anything to make a buck. The first action of the Bush administration was to allow higher levels of lead in water. Nothing was done to stop importation of poisonous lead painted toys from China until it became a national outrage. So the fact that the US has not followed Europe in legislating safer electronics might well have more to do with who was paying off whom than actual risk. Take a look at all the US pols that have gone to jail recently for corruption. Cunningham and Ney made millions for themselves by providing troops with faulty equipment. You think that they wouldn't have poisoned your kids as well to make a buck? Or the folk who make the stuff? Actually quite a few armies are now using lead free bullets.

I don’t know that lead free solder is inferior to traditional. Since the melting point is higher one could reasonably expect superior results with respect to lifespan. You just need the right equipment, thats all.

Military procurement procedures are not necessarily optimal or even sensible. Equipment must have been made with approved techniques even if the result is inferior. The point is that they have to understand the impact on the entire system before approving a change.

Suppliers will often make spurious claims to avoid making expensive changes to their process. Just because something is said does not make it true.

Another aspect that comes in is good old protectionism. And in the US there is the issue of political corruption. Some politicians will do anything to make a buck. The first action of the Bush administration was to allow higher levels of lead in water. Nothing was done to stop importation of poisonous lead painted toys from China until it became a national outrage. So the fact that the US has not followed Europe in legislating safer electronics might well have more to do with who was paying off whom than actual risk.

Take a look at all the US pols that have gone to jail recently for corruption. Cunningham and Ney made millions for themselves by providing troops with faulty equipment. You think that they wouldn’t have poisoned your kids as well to make a buck? Or the folk who make the stuff?

]]> By: Alex http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13684 Alex Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:44:03 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13684 blocked? why should I be blocked? blocked? why should I be blocked?

]]> By: PHB http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13683 PHB Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:28:32 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13683 Exactly, they say it is eco-glass and someone imagines this must mean recycled. Glass is not in short supply, nor are the raw materials for making it. There is plenty of demand for recycled glass without using it for lenses. Recycled glass is invariably used to make coloured glass. A single green or brown bottle in the wrong bin would taint the whole batch. Nobody uses recycled glass to make lenses or windows. Replacing the use of lead and arsenic with other metals is simply a matter of avoiding pollution in the manufacturing process. Lead is not the only metal that can be used to create high clarity glass. Titanium is superior for glassware, take a look at Schott Triton, you can drop those on a granite counter top and they don't break, they are stronger and thinner than the Ridel equivalents and cost a third as much. Exactly, they say it is eco-glass and someone imagines this must mean recycled. Glass is not in short supply, nor are the raw materials for making it. There is plenty of demand for recycled glass without using it for lenses.

Recycled glass is invariably used to make coloured glass. A single green or brown bottle in the wrong bin would taint the whole batch. Nobody uses recycled glass to make lenses or windows.

Replacing the use of lead and arsenic with other metals is simply a matter of avoiding pollution in the manufacturing process. Lead is not the only metal that can be used to create high clarity glass. Titanium is superior for glassware, take a look at Schott Triton, you can drop those on a granite counter top and they don’t break, they are stronger and thinner than the Ridel equivalents and cost a third as much.

]]> By: rthomas http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13681 rthomas Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:12:56 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13681 The idea that the slower 50mm lenses are sharper goes all the way back to the 1960's - the magazine articles from that time suggest - suggest, mind you - that the f/2.0 lens was, at that time, slightly better wide open than the 1.4 model at the same aperture. I've never used the 50mm f/1.4, but I have used the 55mm f/1.2 and two old 50mm f/2.0 Nikkors, and the all variants of the manual focus 1.8s. I can see how this idea might have taken hold, because the fast 1.2 was emphatically *not sharp* at wide apertures. In the same way, the awful 43-86mm tarnished zoom lenses, all by itself, even when other zooms of the day were pretty good. I hesitate to refer to Ken Rockwell, but here it is: stop worrying and go shoot some pictures! The idea that the slower 50mm lenses are sharper goes all the way back to the 1960′s – the magazine articles from that time suggest – suggest, mind you – that the f/2.0 lens was, at that time, slightly better wide open than the 1.4 model at the same aperture. I’ve never used the 50mm f/1.4, but I have used the 55mm f/1.2 and two old 50mm f/2.0 Nikkors, and the all variants of the manual focus 1.8s. I can see how this idea might have taken hold, because the fast 1.2 was emphatically *not sharp* at wide apertures. In the same way, the awful 43-86mm tarnished zoom lenses, all by itself, even when other zooms of the day were pretty good. I hesitate to refer to Ken Rockwell, but here it is: stop worrying and go shoot some pictures!

]]> By: AUid http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13680 AUid Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:32:36 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13680 Absolutely. I didn't want to waste my time reading this post. I usually just glance at the headlines and go on with my day but for some reason I got stuck on this one and now I see it was all worth it for your comment. So ,thank you. Those Dpreview forum people are freaks. I mean I understand that some people are obsessive and picky but do those people even actually take pictures. Half of the things they talk about being I can't even see at 100% Absolutely. I didn’t want to waste my time reading this post. I usually just glance at the headlines and go on with my day but for some reason I got stuck on this one and now I see it was all worth it for your comment. So ,thank you. Those Dpreview forum people are freaks. I mean I understand that some people are obsessive and picky but do those people even actually take pictures. Half of the things they talk about being I can’t even see at 100%

]]> By: bigmouth http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13679 bigmouth Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:23:19 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13679 Hmmm, that's kind of funny actually, the military refuse to use environmental friendly technology to manufacture killing machines. Their argument is probably as simple as "lead kills people, we kill people, we are good together..." Hmmm, that’s kind of funny actually, the military refuse to use environmental friendly technology to manufacture killing machines. Their argument is probably as simple as “lead kills people, we kill people, we are good together…”

]]> By: Erik Ehrling http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13676 Erik Ehrling Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:00:48 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13676 There is only one true type of Eco-glass and that is lenses of such high quality that they will be used for decades. Several of my AI/AI-S lenses are more than 20 years and are still going strong... Regards, Erik Ehrling (Sweden) There is only one true type of Eco-glass and that is lenses of such high quality that they will be used for decades.

Several of my AI/AI-S lenses are more than 20 years and are still going strong…

Regards,
Erik Ehrling (Sweden)

]]> By: Ernst http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13678 Ernst Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:50:06 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13678 Making new lenses out of recycled glass isn't the issue. The world will never, ever run out of sand. Nobody is concerned about that. This "eco-glass" business is an initiative to get the heavy metals OUT of optical glass so when you're tired of your 400mm f/2.8 it can be recycled into whatever (or at least tossed in the trash with less worry), AND (more to the point) to make the whole manufacturing situation less toxic. Making new lenses out of recycled glass isn’t the issue. The world will never, ever run out of sand. Nobody is concerned about that.

This “eco-glass” business is an initiative to get the heavy metals OUT of optical glass so when you’re tired of your 400mm f/2.8 it can be recycled into whatever (or at least tossed in the trash with less worry), AND (more to the point) to make the whole manufacturing situation less toxic.

]]> By: Lou Dallara http://nikonrumors.com/2008/12/30/is-eco-glass-reducing-the-quality-of-nikon-lenses.aspx/comment-page-1/#comment-13677 Lou Dallara Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:03:55 +0000 http://nikonrumors.com/?p=2325#comment-13677 Thanks for the Interesting link. I found the switch to lead free solding interesting in light of DBS which appeared around the time Nikon made the switch to ROHS soldering. >Plans to utilise lead-free solder are being implemented under the >Environmental Action Plan (page 10), and in fiscal 2006, 100% >lead-free solder was used for new consumer products including the >D200 digital SLR camera. Boards for existing products had also >been converted to use lead-free solder. ROHS solding is not as reliabile as lead based soldering and has problems, the military won't use it because it's not as reliable. http://www.kester.com/en-us/leadfree/ >There are concerns to be addressed with component and board finish >compatibility with lead-free solders. There are concerns about the temperature >profile components and boards can sustain to not jeopardize their functionality. Thanks for the Interesting link. I found the switch to lead free solding interesting in light of DBS which appeared around the time Nikon made the switch to ROHS soldering.

>Plans to utilise lead-free solder are being implemented under the
>Environmental Action Plan (page 10), and in fiscal 2006, 100%
>lead-free solder was used for new consumer products including the
>D200 digital SLR camera. Boards for existing products had also
>been converted to use lead-free solder.

ROHS solding is not as reliabile as lead based soldering and has problems, the military won’t use it because it’s not as reliable.

http://www.kester.com/en-us/leadfree/

>There are concerns to be addressed with component and board finish >compatibility with lead-free solders. There are concerns about the temperature >profile components and boards can sustain to not jeopardize their functionality.

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