< ! --Digital window verification 001 -->

Jeff-c has spoken

Nobody knows who Jeff-c is, but he has an incredible history of knowing what's coming next from Nikon. I don't think he has ever been wrong. He (or she) has a better track record than Thom Hogan (please correct me if I am wrong). This is what he had to say today (source):
  • Nikon was not happy with the picture quality from the Sony 24mp FF sensor in their evaluation and rejected it.
  • Sony is making changes to this sensor to suit Nikon's requirements.
  • Prototype of a 24mp FF is floating around in tester's hand.
  • He is convinced that a higher mp FF is coming within the next 6 months, regardless the MX is real or not.
Are those the reasons why we did not see a new FF 24mp DSLR from Nikon at Photokina?
All of the above are gossips/rumors - please read the whole post here for more detailed information.
This entry was posted in Nikon D3x, Nikon D800 and tagged . Bookmark the permalink. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.
  • cameron

    i vote it’s not real information because:

    “Sony is making changes to this sensor to suit Nikon’s requirements”

    nikon built their own sensors since D3 and D300 release…

  • dave

    No. It’s Sony sensor. Nikon makes the image processor (EXPEED).

  • Juergen

    I think “jeff-c” is given waaay too much credit:
    a) Nikon being unhappy with the 24 MP Sony sensor – could be read many times at dpreview forums, nothing new
    b) Sony making changes to it also could be read on the same forums many times, it’s a logical conclusion from a) and also nothing new
    c) Prototype to be existent is clear since someone looked into a newer D3 firmware, 24,4(?) MP was stated there with the according resolution size in pixels. Nothing new, too.
    d) Who is NOT convinced Nikon will release a 24 MP D3 variant?

    I – yes, I know, it’s ME again… – highly doubt “jeff-c” has any more info than those who follow Nikon news and rumours and it is a miracle for me why so many people think he has any insider info – but as on the other hand many praise Ken “The Liar” Rockwell…

  • Blog Admin

    He predicted the Nikon D90 announcement more than a month before the release (I could be wrong about the exact time frame). I think he was also dead on for the D3 last year. Do you remember a case where he was wrong? I could not find one (and I looked for this 2 months ago when the whole D90 fiasco was going on). Maybe he is just a journalist who gets invited on all Nikon announcements and knows about them in advance?

    Just curious, what do you think about Thom Hogan (I already know your opinion on KR and jeff-c)?
    Another thing Jurgen: do you know why macrumors.com were/are so successful? Because at the beginning they reported EVERY rumor. As the time passed by, readers realized that they do not have to waist their time to check other sites. Make sense?
  • Blog Admin

    We went through this once before – lower level sensors are Sony, higher end are Nikons. Of course I could be wrong.

  • Juergen

    Well, I can’t prove my strong impression on “jeff-c” at the moment,(apart from his post which is the theme of this rumour thread), as it would take too much time to investigate. So I leave it as it is – my impression.

    Thom Hogan is extremely knowledgeable and a nice guy. Sometimes I smile a bit about his raves about Nikon marketing, but he is also very helpful and always has an open ear when someone points him to a mistake or an omission. Which btw. is the exact opposite of dpreview, I pointed them to a big mistake in the Samsung Photokina interview and they silently fixed it, of course no “thanks” (it’s THEIR job to proof-read their material carefully, it’s a highly commercial site) and not even stated on the page there was a revision – VERY unprofessional!
    In the same league as Thom plays Bjoern Rorslett, also an extremely knowledgeable guy, famous for his tests and lens ratings from a practical point of view (full-time Norwegian nature photographer).
    Another knowledgeable guy is Rob Galbraith, extremely great journalism about the Canon AF debacle on the 1D MkIII!!
    Very knowledgeable guys also at Luminous Landscape, Michael Reichmann, Jeff Schewe, although they are fans of Canon and Leica. But as I have a very strong opinion about Canon (I am an old fart and around the time I bought my first SLR Canon suddenly ditched their FD mount and introduced the EOS mount, glad I went Nikon!) and also the Leica M8 debacle (which indeed is a great debacle, nothing less!), the site is not of so much interest to me as e.g. bythom.
    A great review site also is Dave Etchell’s imaging-resource.com, much underrated IMHO.
    And when you are familiar with the above sites maybe you get a clue why I don’t like KR, there’s a substantial difference between his site and the above mentioned sites. Also I don’t like it when people lie so much as KR does, from his Porsche to the left-handed F5, and I also don’t like this extensive bragging “I am Ken, I am the Greatest”, that’s an attitude you don’t find with the other guys mentioned above – they are professionals and don’t need to.

    And rumour sites: It’s really very tricky to find the best balance between quality and quantity – really!
    Some people more like the quality approach, some the quantity one. The point is to find the individual balance, on the one hand you have to deliver a constant stream of rumours, on the other hand people will keep away when there’s too many rumours or when they too often feel the rumours are too unsubstantiated. And YES, I know it’s rumours, but rumours and rumours are not the same.
    So you have to find YOUR way, monitor your visitor statistics carefully and also the amount of material sent to you, as long as both rise you are on the way up.
    And YES, to aim to be THE site is always a good goal!!

    All the best!

    Juergen

  • Ernst

    You’re all wrong.

    Actually _making_ sensors requires a fab, and Nikon doesn’t have one. So when Nikon is said to make their “own” sensors, it’s meant that they _design_ the sensor.

    I don’t think it’s public knowledge where the D300 and D3 sensors are made, but they are claimed to be Nikon designs. They may well be made in Sony’s fab. Or perhaps they’re made at a company that does contract manufacturing only, like TSMC. I don’t know.

  • alex

    it won’t make much sense to get the sony 24mp sensor.

    when the d3 is as good as it is why would they drop that design?

  • alex

    even more if you consider that D3 was the first one gapless. canon’s first is the new 50d. 5d and 5dmk2 are not gapless.

    why would nikon revert to a sony non-gapless with the next camera? there’s no reason.

  • Steve

    I think Juergen you are missing the point of a rumors site. I think all rumors should be posted. If we don’t want to discuss or speculate than we won’t. I think the readers will weed out the rumors that are fake.

  • hulk.

    one name. Renesas.

  • Pablov

    I don’t like the Sony’s 24MP either..
    Not very hard to see its limitations

    I prefer 5D Mark II’s one.

    What useful is a 24MP sensor if it is so noisy?

    Besides that, I guess a sensor must have enough resources/capabilities (more than just still imaging, and LiveViewing) to deliver high quality Full HD Movie (in conjunction with the image/movie processor), and I don’t know if 24MP Sony’s sensor has it.

    Remember that LiveView is like a fraction of Full HD Movie mode.

  • gesswho

    wtf i want a dslr to take pictures not to make movies for that i have a goog video camera

    in the fucture dslr cameras will have cellphone toaster and what? i like the things only for one porpuse because when they invent a lot of things in a product that lose the sence it’s like phones people buy phones to call to other people now days thei do everything less doing calls because we have a lot of trouble to finde the f**** icon to call some one like iphone grrrr

  • Dibyendu

    I think that the only correct rumor amongst all others is this one:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=27692918

    This said 6 months ago:
    Sendai Nikon Preparation 2 new models.

    1 is D3x 24Mpixel FX camera 6000$

    2 is D10? FX camera 3.0LCD 3000$

    2 camera arrive in this year.

    Also Nikon Thailand Preparation D80 Successor(1000$) and more.

    As we know, the predicted release of (2) happened – D700 came out.
    Also D80 successor came out.
    Note that this person DID NOT say that the 24MP camera would be released in 2008 – he said it was in preparation but only (#2) will be released this year.

  • Read Carefully!!

    I do not understand you guys and even Nikonrumors.
    The source link refers to gossips only and it says:
    “While there are not enough solid information about this product coming soon, I did come across a few related gossips. One of them is that Nikon was not happy with picture quality from the Sony 24mp FF sensor in their evaluation and rejected for using it in Nikon’s products without modifications. The gossip went on to say Sony is making changes to this sensor to suit Nikon’s requirements.
    Another rumor says prototype of a 24mp FF is floating around in tester’s hand.
    I am quite convinced a higher mp FF is coming within the next 6 months, regardless the MX is real or not. From what we have seen the D3 and D700, all Nikon has to do is to shrink the pixel size by 33% and giving up the high ISO performance.”.

    For those of you who do not understand English, he only refers to GOSSIPS!!!!!!!!!!
    There is a very BIG difference when he refers to reliable sources that he has for a new product and when he refers to gossips!!
    I know NikonRumors wants to have new information so that people will visit his site but not to mention clearly that jeff-c refers only to gossips is nothing less than misleading!!

  • http://flickr.com/photos/friedtoast/ Fried Toast

    Hard to say what they’ll do. Can’t imagine them dropping the D3 design. However, they need to play the marketing game, even if megapixels seem to be a Ghz-type competition.

    Thom puts an informative spin on the MP race here:
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=29552947

  • canterel

    i generally put a lot of stock into what jeff-c says, but in this case it reads more like speculation/analysis than any kind of tangible claim he’s making. i don’t disagree, but i don’t think this really adds to the information out there.

  • Blog Admin

    this will explain why readers are still confused on this topic.

  • Blog Admin

    my point exactly

  • Blog Admin

    hehe – I agree with you on the phones

  • Joseph (Cameron’s brother)

    First of all, there won’t be any 24MP studio camera by Nikon.

    Second of all, Nikon end the deal with Sony because Nikon wishes to improve the market by selling models with Nikon brand sensors in flagship models.

    Third of all, Nikon’s company policy is to keep their mouth shut about other companies, for example, Sony.

    Fourth of all, there is no Nikon “24MP” full frame prototype floating because it’s lesser than 24.

    Last of all, “MX” was one of Nikon’s design projects that they decided to drop three years ago because their financing is not strong enough to start building a whole new line of different camera system and lenses.

    Have a nice day.

  • Blog Admin

    did you read the last sentence???

    “All of the above are gossips/rumors – please read the whole post here for more detailed information.”
  • Alex

    Hahahaha! I’ll never stop coming to this site if I can keep reading “Cameron” and “Joseph (Cameron’s brother)” comments. I mean, when you have the God’s of Camera Know-How telling you exactly what’s going on with Nikon in such a rude, bossy manner…its just far too comical. Ah what immature, little rascals. Anyway Nikon Rumors is a helpful site and its just a few of the repliers here who’s clocks need to be cleaned. This new post by jeff-c just sounds like common speculation thats been sounding all over the net recently. Nothing is really new info in his comment. But not to say its not helpful or untrue. Thanks for posting it Nikon Rumors! Good work.

  • Blog Admin

    Thanks. Now I only want to know what you think about NikonRumors – I think I can guess: deliver only valid rumors, no speculation. I think you will agree it is a thin line between those two. Following your feedback (if you have noticed) I started emphasizing on “this is my opinion”, “this is a rumor” and adding a disclaimer on some posts. I do listen to user’s feedback and sometimes I even change a thing or two

    I will add a survey soon to see how can I improve NR (from content to site design). On the site design: I am a bit restricted by the software I am using and I am considering to move to WordPress, but this will not be easy. I will have some major problems importing all existing content.
  • Pablov

    I hope you are right.

    and, taking advantage that you work for Nikon or something like that, tell them to improve the Movie mode with professional-grade features and implementation. (full manual exposure, faster frame rate, up to full HD res, stereo Mic-in, etc, etc)

    I know… some photo-guys don’t care about movie, but too many pros DO because they understand the potential of DSLR as HD Video recording tool and its lot of advantages (I won’t bother enumerating all of them here)

    Maybe Nikon already realized it and works on it…

    If you know, would be good to let us know too :)

    Regards.

  • hulk

    Reading Sony’s A900 reviews in magazines, it appears that the 24MP sensor is rather really good.

    The noise appears at 1600ISO and upper, but it is not an issue when doing studio shoot.

  • Pablov

    I saw pictures taken by A900 and didn’t like the noise, and did come before ISO 1600

    Maybe it was me, better you check by yourself the images.

  • Juergen

    What I’ve seen so far from the A900 doesn’t convince me in terms of high-ISO quality. But on the other hand one has to take in mind there *has* to be a difference to Nikon’s noise-kings, the D700 and the D3.

  • Juergen

    No I don’t I miss the point of a rumour site. There has to be some selection otherwise the site would be flooded with pure nonsense. Obviously I have more strict selection in mind than you or the site admin – different people, different opinions.
    The point with this site is that it has to be expanded in some way because it can’t be run the whole year round with new rumours every day.
    My suggestion would be to implement forums, I think there’s some potential in that.

  • Juergen

    a) What I think about Nikonrumors?
    I like it. Otherwise I wouldn’t spend any time here looking around, not to speak of taking the time to post.

    b) Deliver only valid rumors, no speculation?
    That’s not possible, of course. But to take a sharp eye on the material coming in is possible.
    Over the time one develops an “antenna” for the quality of the material sent.

    And where to draw a line between “rumours” and “speculation”? Sometimes impossible. So YES, often there’s a thin – VERY thin – line between those two.

    c) Have I followed the feedback?
    Yes, I have. And I really like you are open to feedback (which doesn’t mean I expect you to follow any feedback from me, I am only *one* visitor here)! Being open to feedback is a vital part of a good site and of course I noticed your “this is my opinion” etc. – very good move in my opinion.

    d) To add a survey is a smart move. And I think there’s some more potential in this site. Maybe a forum (with which categories? Don’t know…)? BUT a good forum involves some work, namely administration (NO, I don’t apply as a forum moderator!) to avoid the situation like on dpreview where some trolls can do whatever they want and others are banned for no apparent reason; also the silent axing of threads over there is bad behaviour.

    Whatever you will do, take in mind this site is different from the others, it’s core is to deal with rumours regarding Nikon. I am curious what others think…

  • Blog Admin

    Well, for now I am not short on rumors – I have multiple posts every day.

    Few people have asked for forums and this will be one of the survey questions. I personally don’t like forums – they are so 1990, but if there is interest I will add one. Jurgen, you can be the first moderator – I am sure you will do a good job (I am not joking here).
  • Juergen

    a) “First of all, there won’t be any 24MP studio camera by Nikon.”

    Aha – and what is the source for that statement?
    I think the posts by “AxelR” are MUCH stronger than what you say when he lists the various resolution strings in the D3 including “6048×4032 24.4 M”
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1021&thread=27581087
    and another post where he said “Someone typed those string in the firmware, and he/she probably did it for a good reason.”
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=27581402

    In addition, Nikon HAS to deliver a high-MP camera to compete against Canon and Sony (and wasn’t there somewhere mentioned that another manufacturer will have one soon?)

    But ok, your backdoor is that it will be below 24 MP…

    b) Nikon ends the sensor deal with Sony.

    Who says so (besides you)?

    c) Nikon’s policy is to keep silent about other companies.

    That’s true for most serious companies. So that’s a useless statement.

    d) No 24 MP FX prototype

    So you know all the prototypes floating around? Oh c’mon, it gets wilder and wilder with you…

    e) MX dropped by Nikon three years ago because of not having enough money for it

    So you mean a big group like Nikon couldn’t fund such a system, but a company like Leica can??

  • Pablov

    I really doubt that Nikon releases a 24MP FX sensor DSLR

    In any case, they should use a better than Sony’s

    Canon’s EOS 5D Mark II looks much better to me, at least the sample pictures I saw, and the Movie was also very good (can’t tell for sure because I only saw some compressed web-video samples, but they looked good, much better than D90’s)

  • Pablov

    a DSLR that is capable of full HD Movie can beat any camera you can buy (unluess you spend more than $5K ..) and you can also use all the line of lenses you already have.

    So, even if you don’t care to record movie and use your camcorder, Lot of people will do, and use the potential of HD Movie from a DSLR.

    Like or not, It’s just a matter of time when DSLRs will deliver outstanding HD Video as they do with still imaging.

    I like a device that does include many features, as long as they are really well implemented.

    BTW, I use my cellphone just for calls and SMS :) (it doesn’t have even a camera.. and it’s B&W screen! )
    But I know I will buy a new one when GPS gets well enough implemented on it, … I find that feature useful)

  • Pablov

    I missed some dollars…
    Even with a $5K you wouldn’t get some of the qualities that a DSLR could be able of when recording HD Movie..

    It doesn’t compare with a camcorder.
    If HD Movie is Professionally implemented in the DSLR, then it would be like comparing a Point&Shoot with a FX body …

  • Douglas

    Actually, acording to the Sony and Nikon Rep.’s in my area, the D300/D90 Sensor is Sony… however the FF Sensor of the D3/700 is not… which i believe i have stated several times when people where saying they hoped Nikon would use Sony’s 24mp FF sensor and i cringed each time i heard (read) that…

  • JR

    the D3/D700 sensor is make by PHILLIPS
    the D300/D90 sensor is made by SONY

  • Pablov

    I never found any detailed information about D3/D700 sensor.

    Could you tell the exact model ?

  • http://dotfuturemanifesto.blogspot.com/2008/06/nikon-d700-d3x-and-end-of-moores-law.html PHB

    The fab issue is not the same as the sensor design issue.

    It is not at all unusual for a chip design company to be ‘fabless’. Sony is the exception in having its own fab. They can only afford to run the fab if they have near to full capacity which is almost certainly not going to happen with their own production runs alone.

    That fab will certainly be running a large number of designs. It is highly unlikely that Sony ever intended to run the same sensor design as Nikon.

    The way that VLSI is designed these days is by using ‘standard cell’ components. The D3 and D300 are not the same as the Sony sensor, they have a completely different autofocus architecture. The Sony sensor will have some Nikon design components in and vice versa.

    The only common point is that a given fab is going to have a certain resolution limit and none of the sensors is going to go beyond that point. But that does not mean that every 22MP sensor produced in that fab is identical.

    The only difference between a ‘Nikon sensor’ and a ‘Sony sensor’ in practice is who has the copyright on the design and the rights to sell it to third parties.

  • JR

    well the only companies that manufacture sensors (that i’m aware of) are Canon, Sony, Kodak, and Phillips.

    we know its not the first 3, must be Phillips.

  • ChrisL

    http://resource.renesas.com/lib/eng/edge/11/special02.html

    “Nikon, a top force in photography, continues to produce its “F Series”, the world’s leading single-lens reflex cameras. Renesas flash microcomputers are used as controllers in a number of models, including the company’s latest F6 flagship film-based model, D50 digital single-lens reflex camera, and D2x high-end digital flagship model.”

    But thats controllers, not sensors.

  • http://www.lepingzha.com LEPING ZHA

    Only these four? Anyone heard about Dalsa who makes the Mamiya ZD and the new Phase One P65+ sensors?

    http://www.dalsa.com/sensors/products/dsc.asp

  • Back to top