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MX Lenses

This is the message I received:
"So i DID WRITE ALL THE BOXES. I can make mabe a picture next wheek when I am on the night work schedule, not now. So you will belief me 
So here is all 6 six boxes:
AF-S MX Nikkor 24 f4.0G
AF-S MX Nikkor 45 f2.8G
AF-S MX NIkkor 85 f2.8G
AF-S MX Nikkor 135 f2.0G ED
AF-S MX Nikkor 200 F2.8G ED
AF-S MX Nikkor 65-180 f2.8G ED IF"
This discussion has been going on in the past few days (our regular readers will certainly know what I am talking about). This is not one of our trusted sources, so I don't stand behind this rumor. It could be a hoax. If the boxes for those lenses are already existing, I would expect them at Photokina which makes the above offer of pictures next week useless (Photokina is next week from September 23rd till September 28th).
Going back few post you will find this rumor: "You should carefully assess the upcoming newly to be released (prime) lenses and realize they cover more than strictly needed." MX again?
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  • Pablov

    So 1 week is not too much to wait, Photokina will give us the final word I guess.

    The biggest question I ask myself is about the Camera.., how would it be, when would it be, how much would it be, really modular?, backwards compatible with actual lenses? …

  • http://www.redelijkheid.com Willem

    AF-S MX Nikkor 24 f4.0G -> F4.0 for a 24mm prime lens?
    Am I the only one thinking that’s kinda weird?

  • dfgdfgdfg

    That could be around 14mm on a medium format sensor. It would be too big at 14mm.

  • fotomik

    Do the apertures make any sense to anyone? If these were 35mm-lenses, I’d believe them if the 24mm was 2.0, but it’s 4.0 now. And how come the 135mm is 2.0 then?
    And if these were for some larger format then the fastfast 135mm sounds odd.
    Exciting times, nonetheless.

  • thedetective

    The question is whether these lenses will be those long-awaited 50mm, 85mm and 70-200mm replacements. If so, the apertures are bad news. Still, no VR on 180mm sounds strange, given that this would be an 120mm equivalent.

    Also keep in mind that this is medium format. The DOF is even thinner with an even bigger sensor and you will find such a camera mostly in a studio with controlled light. Check out hasselblad lens apertures, they are quite similar:

    HCD 4,0/28mm
    HC 4,0/50mm
    HC 2,8/ 80mm
    HC 3,2/150mm
    HC 4,0/210mm

    The clean high ISO will neutralize the difference in aperture I assume.

  • Theo

    Wouldn’t that mean that, used on FX, these lenses produce sharper center-to-corner sharpness and less vignetting than existing lenses?

  • fotomik

    Why would you assume clean high ISO? The only reason that the D3/D700 are as clean as they are is because there are only 12 million pixels on the sensor. Not one of the manufacturers of larger format backs has been able to solve this. The things are noisy as heck at ISO400. Even the newer PhaseOne P45+, at only a pathetic 39mp is not very good at anything over 200.
    Why would Nikon suddenly be able to overcome this? Or would Nikon really develop a MF-system with 24mp, when everyone else is doing 3x that? Not EVEN Nikon, I’d think.
    Although, MF-systems haven’t traditionally needed higher ISOs, since they are clunky and difficult to shoot with anywhere where you would actually need them. The need for a tripod is a very effective IS, by the way.

  • hulk

    I don’t think it is weird.
    Do you really need a large aperture for a wide angle? What you need is : DoF!!, and low barrel / low aberration.

    IMHO, those requirements match a low aperture value.

  • http://dotfuturemanifesto.com/ PHB

    These are the exact set of lenses I have been predicting for MX (see my web site). The reason is simple, they are the exact same focal lengths and apertures as the 3 PC nikors released earlier this year, plus a 136 plus a 200. They are also the same lenses as mamiya have for their medium format kit.

    While it might seem somewhat surprising for Nikon to suddenly churn out so many lenses, my guess would be that far more lenses are designed than ever see the light of day. Also a large part of lens design these days is surely CAD/CAM setups.

    I am somewhat skeptical we woukld see these at Photokina though. The camera body is certainly not going to appear until WIPPI. So why launch the lenses now unless they are going to be a protracted tease?

    I am also somwhat skeptical about the 65-180 lens. Bringing that lens out at the same time as a replacement for the 70-200? Bringing it out as the replacement for the 70-200? Neither make much sense. Not unless there is no other way to fix the vignetting issue in a 77mm filter format and I would expect the filter to be changed first.

    The M1 is going to be a whole new system in the $10K range. I would not expect a great deal of lens interchangability except for lenses that cost at least $4K so as to be worth the effort or at reduced sensor resolution or the ability to use an MX lens on an FX/DX body.

    But looking at the Mamiya lenses I would also expect MX nikor to be huge so I would not be too concerned about interchangeability.

  • beuler

    First 3 lenses match the new Tilt/Shifts, which have larger image circles already, but… the 24mm is wrong, it should be f3.5.

    The last three make *some* sense for a medium format sensor, but seem pretty pointless for FX *unless*… they are macro.

  • Nikkorian

    The 65-180 2.8 sounds cool – disturbingly there’s a VR missing in the name tough!

    As there is a 17-55 2.8 VR still missing :-(

  • beuler

    The 65-180mm could be a replacement to the 70-180mm micro nikkor, but then the aperture is too wide. I call hoax.

  • Anonymous

    dream on, everyone! :D :D :D

  • PHB

    The other cameras are irrelevant, Phase One is not Nikon and does not have access to a tenth of Nikon’s technology. We saw this in the mainframe world when DEC came out with a range of minicomputers that blew the socks of IBM’s lumbering beasts.

    The ISO factor is the result of the sensor resolution, not the number of pixels. For a given sensor size such as FX, more pixels means that each individual pixel is smaller and has less area to receive light.

    The MX sensor appears to be the same resolution as the D3. So we can expexct the same sort of top end ISO.

    That said, I doubt that high ISO is going to be the priority with this camera. Most will be used in a studio with full lighting setups that are currently designed for film at 200ISO or less.

    Some folk may use the camera in church for weddings but 6400/3200 is hardly a major issue even then.

    What may be more of a benefit is that the greater number of pixels will allow for much more aggressive noise reduction techniques to be used without loss of fidelity.

  • Ernst

    Okay, if ANY of this is true:

    The small minimum apertures are a by-product of great big image circles. You won’t find a MF lens in f/1.4.

    If the lenses are F-mount compatible, their back-focus won’t allow enough room for a larger mirror (the “FX” mirror already takes up ALMOST all the available room). So that means rangefinder, not SLR.

    Sounds like a digital Mamiya 7.

  • Anonymous

    At Photokina next week, Mamiya will announce 24 megapixel camera with Mamiya 6/7 lens mount. Will be available from dealers by 2012. UK price £10k, USA price $60k with free Tenba mouse pad.

  • fotomik

    Oh come on. Doesn’t all the tech behind all the MF (or LF) sensors come from two or three (Dalsa, Phillips, Kodak and what else?) suppliers? I’m pretty sure that they have quite a lot of experience with making the sensors.
    If the mythical MX-sensor is twice the size of FX (36x48mm), that would still mean 24mp, and I simply don’t believe the high ISO performance is the same as an FX 12mp chip.
    Now, I’ll be the first to admit that there are all kinds of things going on inside the sensors that I don’t have the slightest clue about, but in my eye, it seems that Nikon doesn’t have the knowhow, or the manufacturing capability of Canon or Sony (with their 20+mp FX-sized sensors). Let alone the big boys with their 50+mp sensors…
    I love Nikon, I’ve used them since the beginning of my photographic life, but come on.
    Nikon doesn’t even manufacture their own sensors. Unlike others… Thinking that somehow Nikon has come up with a Holy Grail-type of larger format sensor that is capable of shooting at even ISO 1600 is, to my mind nothing short self-delusional.

  • Chris V

    Hm, well spotted, but if this IS a studio cam, maybe it is better off without VR? Has anyone ever put VR in a medium format lens? A lot more glass to move..

  • an0n

    Main question is whether they are F-mount

  • Chris V

    Well, since I was bored and having dinner, I did some calculations (mind you I’m pretty rubbish at maths, so feel free to correct me!).
    IF the MX is 56x56mm, then the 24mm would be the equivalent to a 35mm 15mm lens. Isn’t that outrageously wide for MF? Sounds implausible. So, IF it is 56×56 the ‘equivalent’ 35mm focal equiv.lengths would be 15.6mm, 29.3mm, 55mm, 87,7mm, 130mm and 42-117mm. Sounds like a decent line up, I just don’t believe a 24mm for 6×6… AFAIK the widest for 6×45 or 6×6 is around 40mm. There is a 30mm but that is a Russian fisheye.

    However, if it is the also rumored/suggested/invented/wishfully though of 36x36mm format, the lineup becomes (24×36 equiv.) 22mm, 41mm, 80mm, 125mm, 185mm and 60-105mm. Again a decent line up but why 41 and not 50-ish? The 60-105 could be useful in studio portrait/fashion shoots, but personally I’d rather use primes for that…
    So, neither one fully makes sense to me so far.
    And for a studio cam you’d expect at least one T&S for product shots (but that may not be a priority)

  • fotomik

    But what if the new T&S lenses already cover the new format?

    I’m not liking the converted focal lenghts, no matter what the medium is. Well, ofcourse on 35mm they sound nice…

    And still, a 135mm f2.0? For ANY MF-system? Sounds a bit too fast.
    And that zoom is reallyreally fast, like, never seen before fast, for anything over 35mm. Hasselblad has 60-120 f:4.8, and the 50-110mm f:3.5-4.5 and those are BIG beasts. So no, I’m not buying this. Not for now at least.
    Mind you, a 36x36mm sensor would be a dream come true for me.

  • Jovan

    Are we certain MX is yet another format — and medium format at that?

    I remember an old post about moving parts, but they said the project was abandoned, right? But is it possible that these lenses have some sort of switch that alters the focal point, making them ‘true’ on both FX and DX sensors?

    The fact that they are all G lenses gives credence to the idea that it’s a wholesale update of Nikon’s prime lineup. If it were to coincide with getting out of the film business altogether, the old-school lenses could be discontinued as well.

    Given the R&D costs, can they sustain the development of DX, FX and yet another format MX??

    Still, some of the apertures are strange.

  • ZoetMB

    What does “So I did write all the boxes” mean? Is this guy claiming that he did the copy for all the boxes? His English sounds German. Why would a guy who can’t write be doing packaging copy?

    I’m having a lot of trouble believing this and even if I did believe that Nikon was coming out with a larger format MX camera, I don’t see how they could release six lenses at once. That’s how many lenses Nikon is able to develop in a year. And according to Hogan, it takes Nikon three years from conception to manufacturing.

  • Blog Admin

    I agree with you. I also have hard time believing this, but since we are talking about rumors here, this is one. This guy could be working in the Chinese factory that produce the boxes (remember the D700 leak). I repeatedly asked him for more information but did not get any.

  • Ernst

    I think he meant that he “wrote down” (i.e. transcribed onto a notepad) the text he read on the side of the boxes.

  • Ernst

    > If the mythical MX-sensor is twice
    > the size of FX (36x48mm), that would
    > still mean 24mp, and I simply don’t
    > believe the high ISO performance is
    > the same as an FX 12mp chip.

    Why not? Same photosites w/ proportionally more readouts: same ISO performance. It’s essentially an FX sensor next to another FX sensor. What makes you believe that having another FX sensor next door would make your image quality plummet?

  • Ernst

    “FX” already covers “FX” and “DX.” If “MX” just means “multi-format,” how is that different than “FX?”

  • sf_shooter

    Hopefully, it’s a medium format. It just makes sense. That market is there for the taking for a company like Nikon or Canon. With DSLR sales growth eventually slowing, a market they’re not in is an area where they can go in and quickly grow. I think if they move in and do it right, they will be far away the leader in 3 years. Hasselblad and Mamiya will end up being the Olympus and Pentax of the medium format world.

  • bendead

    Hi, I just have a question…

    Would it be possible to use on this future Mx sensor, the all range of FF Nikon lenses ?

    Like the crop you have, when you use a DX lens on a D3.

  • alex

    “And according to Hogan” – brainwashing

  • Jovan

    Well, Nikon hasn’t branded any lenses FX — just bodies. (Someone correct me, if that’s wrong.)

    So, maybe it’s just an indicator to label the non-DX lenses as compatible with both DX and FX bodies. Newbies might be confused thinking that they ‘need’ to buy DX lenses for their DX bodies. — …not sure MX branded lenses would really help though :)

  • Bernard

    This makes a lot of sense, I feel good vibes for this.

    I’ll be first in line to get one if this turns out to be true.

    Cheers,
    Bernard

  • fotomik

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091801mamiya_ZDb_digital_back.asp
    Mamiya has got a 2x FX-sensor, with 22mp.
    Could it be the same sensor? This one comes from Dalsa.
    ISO 50-400 only.

  • ricardo

    Nikon is coming op with a larger format then 24×36 it will be nearly or the same sensor as for the Leica S2 , 30×45. Some nikkor lenses like 180mm and the classic 80-200 zoom can cover that format, of course new lenses will be avaible.
    Signs that something will happen in the MF market is that Hasselblad is droping their prices. (9995 euro for a complet HIII-31, 12595 for HIII-39).

    Also Canon and Pentax are maybe working on a 30×45 sensor.

    • http://nikonrumors.com/ [NR] admin

      Where did you get your info – email me if you want to stay anonymous. Thanks!

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